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Certificate of authenticity11907

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Collector 21	21 Phill59898 private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 2
	Hello, I'm a newbie to cbcs. I have a question if I have a certificate of authenticity do I still need to verify the signature when grading my comic book? Because adding verification signature is an additional $55. Thank you for any help
	5 years ago	Post 1 • IP flag post

COLLECTOR 26.89K	26.89K dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 8
	It is not REQUIRED but if you’re getting the book graded and it is signed the signatures (I’m assuming it has 3 signatures given the verification cost you cited) will count as writing on the cover and lower the grade unless you get the signatures verified. Since you’re new, I highly recommend reading through the Newbie’s Guide which should answer a lot of questions regarding using CBCS’ services and the various options available
	5 years ago	Post 2 • IP flag post

Collector 21	21 Phill59898 private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	But if I have a certificate of authenticity with the comic book do I still need to go through the verification signature process? Wouldn't the certificate of authenticity make it a valid signature? I understand what you're saying, just seems like an unnecessary $55 cost if somebody have a certificate of authenticity.
	5 years ago	Post 3 • IP flag post

Collector 10.3K	10.3K GanaSoth private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 4
	@Phill59898 CBCS uses state-of-the-art technology to determine if the signature is real or not. Anyone could fake a signature and throw a real (or fake) certificate of authenticity with it. I'm not implying this is what you are doing. Please don't take it that way. I'm just saying in general.
	5 years ago	Post 4 • IP flag post

COLLECTOR 26.89K	26.89K dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 6
	@Phill59898 Certificates of Authenticity are nice and all but they don’t carry much weight since they can be duplicated, forged, lost, or transferred from one book to another. As such, they are not used at all for CBCS’s signature verification process, which verifies the signature based on the qualities of the signature itself compared to known authentic examples. So you do not have to go through the signature verification process but without it the book will get a blue label with a lower grade due to “writing on the cover.” Adding the signature Verification option will qualify it for a red label and if the signatures are verified, they will be listed on the label. Which brings up an important point: if a signature fails verification, it does not necessarily mean the signature is fake. There are also options for whether you would like to proceed with slabbing and grading if one or more signatures fails verification If you only care about the signatures and the grade is not important, you can use the Slab-Only option which will encapsulate the book and verify one signature for $20 with additional signatures for $15 each. Additionally, there is currently a promotion going through the end of May. If you write “Promo Code: SupportTheHobby” on your invoice that you include with your submission you will get 15% off your order
	5 years ago	Post 5 • IP flag post

Collector 21	21 Phill59898 private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 9
	Oh, I see I understand now. I definitely can see people faking as a certificate of authenticity. thank you guys so much.
	5 years ago	Post 6 • IP flag post

Collector 38	38 BradL private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	I understand the certification not being used to validate a signature but take RI edition comics that are only available with unique covers. Chew #1 RI game board edition came with a unique cover and was only available signed, IDW publishes RI edition signed editions with a gold stamp stating its a signature edition, how does CBCS handle these.
	5 years ago	Post 7 • IP flag post

If the viagra is working you should be well over a 9.8. 18.07K	18.07K xkonk private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 3
	If it was signed and a CBCS witness wasn't there when it was signed, it has to go through their verification system. Doesn't matter who, why, or when. The only exception I can think of is CGC witnessed books from before they changed their witness rules last year.
	5 years ago	Post 8 • IP flag post

Collector 14.3K	14.3K Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by BradL I understand the certification not being used to validate a signature but take RI edition comics that are only available with unique covers. Chew #1 RI game board edition came with a unique cover and was only available signed, IDW publishes RI edition signed editions with a gold stamp stating its a signature edition, how does CBCS handle these. I am unsure how CBCS would handle that case, but without witnessing the signature how do you know the guy signed it himself, or his secretary or his friend, while he was out of town? That's kinda the problem with a signature not being witnessed at all..... The hobby is full of Dynamic forces books that were sold promising that Jack Kirby signed the books, but not one that I have seen has ever passed verification...in all likelihood because his wife Roz was often signing for him as he got older and was often ill or unable sadly. I suspect they will probably state unwitnessed requires verification for those reasons
	5 years ago	Post 9 • IP flag post

Collector 14.3K	14.3K Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by dielinfinite @Phill59898 Certificates of Authenticity are nice and all but they don’t carry much weight since they can be duplicated, forged, lost, or transferred from one book to another. As such, they are not used at all for CBCS’s signature verification process, which verifies the signature based on the qualities of the signature itself compared to known authentic examples. So you do not have to go through the signature verification process but without it the book will get a blue label with a lower grade due to “writing on the cover.” Adding the signature Verification option will qualify it for a red label and if the signatures are verified, they will be listed on the label. Which brings up an important point: if a signature fails verification, it does not necessarily mean the signature is fake. There are also options for whether you would like to proceed with slabbing and grading if one or more signatures fails verification If you only care about the signatures and the grade is not important, you can use the Slab-Only option which will encapsulate the book and verify one signature for $20 with additional signatures for $15 each. Additionally, there is currently a promotion going through the end of May. If you write “Promo Code: SupportTheHobby” on your invoice that you include with your submission you will get 15% off your order He covered this very well...a piece of paper saying John SO and So promises the signature is real means little, since we seldom know who John So and so is, or what his angle was to start with, and normally most COA offer no course of action once you manage to establish the signature is not legitimate...not to throw shade at your book or signature at all.
	5 years ago	Post 10 • IP flag post

Collector 1.84K	1.84K Paint_Monk private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 1
	I think CBCS re-verification of anything that wasn't witnessed adds to the validity and integrity of their VSP. Sure, it might seem redundant when you have a comic issued directly from a publisher with a signature. But their unwillingness to make any exceptions shows a solid program where any potential attempts at "cheating the system" are minimized to the greatest extent possible.
	5 years ago	Post 11 • IP flag post

Collector 38	38 BradL private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 3
	Ok so the fact that CBCS says its a valid signature just makes it so because they use some Becket created system (prob some guy sitting the corner saying yep its legit) even though it was never witnessed by any one signing the book but because they say its legit that makes it legit. If the book was a random signed issue of Spawn submitted to CBCS I could understand it being challenged but a book being sent to a dealer from the publisher of the book on an RI cover only available signed that's ridiculous. I know this is going to go no where and now wait someone to post the special CBCS validation technique lol.
	5 years ago	Post 12 • IP flag post

I live in RI and Rhode Islanders eat chili with beans. 102.67K	102.67K esaravo private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 6
	You do not have to get any signature verified, or any comic graded or slabbed either. But when you pay a company to put their name on a product, they set the rules - because it's their name, reputation, and liability at stake. There have been too many faked COAs, too many limited editions that seemed limitless, too many ghost signers, and too many dishonest people in the past that have made it this way.
	5 years ago	Post 13 • IP flag post

COLLECTOR 26.89K	26.89K dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 6
	@BradL That’s what you’re paying for when you ask ANYONE to Verify a signature, their opinion. If you feel so strongly that the signature is legitimate due to it’s origin that’s great, you don’t need anyone to tell you what it is or what it isn’t but don’t expect CBCS to take yours, or anyone else’s word but their own that it is authentic when it comes to grading. The CGC Green/Qualified label is probably what you want. It doesn’t make any claims that the signature is authentic but it does not dock the grade for it either
	5 years ago	Post 14 • IP flag post

-Our Odin-
Rest in Peace

39.35K

Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user

plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0

Quote:

Originally Posted by BradL
Ok so the fact that CBCS says its a valid signature just makes it so because they use some Becket created system (prob some guy sitting the corner saying yep its legit) even though it was never witnessed by any one signing the book but because they say its legit that makes it legit. If the book was a random signed issue of Spawn submitted to CBCS I could understand it being challenged but a book being sent to a dealer from the publisher of the book on an RI cover only available signed that's ridiculous. I know this is going to go no where and now wait someone to post the special CBCS validation technique lol.

Given your tone, I doubt you will even care to research this, but if anyone reading is interested, this is what I posted in a previous Stan Lee signature discussion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesse
It's much more of a science than comic grading is. From the BAS website: "Our experts analyze the ink, structure of the autograph and, when necessary, reference our database of exemplars to make a side-by-side comparison of the signature. If a signature requires us to take a deeper look, we have state of the art tools like a Pro-Scope or VSC machine at our disposal."

If you google "VSC for signature authentication", you will find the Foster+Freeman site. Go in there and look at the Questioned Document Examination (QDE) machines - especially the VSC 8000. The science behind signature verification is extensive and exact. That is why legit signatures can sometimes fail. If something happens to throw off that signature, it fails.

In short, as evidenced by other Stan Lee signatures that HAVE passed, the failed example here does not mean that Stan Lee signatures cannot be verified. In fact, it should give confidence to people that the ones that have passed are definitely legit. Just my take on this whole thing.

And remember ... failing verification does not mean it's a fake or a forgery!!!

5 years ago

Collector 14.3K	14.3K Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by BradL Ok so the fact that CBCS says its a valid signature just makes it so because they use some Becket created system (prob some guy sitting the corner saying yep its legit) even though it was never witnessed by any one signing the book but because they say its legit that makes it legit. If the book was a random signed issue of Spawn submitted to CBCS I could understand it being challenged but a book being sent to a dealer from the publisher of the book on an RI cover only available signed that's ridiculous. I know this is going to go no where and now wait someone to post the special CBCS validation technique lol. The system they use is also not becket created but rather the same system used by handwriting experts for legal cases and consultation experts for law enforcement throughout the world. It is a multi stage technique that requires quite a bit of learning curve to even understand let alone operate, using specialized equipment. Unsure if you wer3e being facetious or not, but autograph verification is as much a science as any other method of study or expertise
	5 years ago	Post 16 • IP flag post

Thank you sir. May I have another? 25.61K	25.61K Siggy private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 1
	Quote: Originally Posted by Jesse_O And remember ... failing verification does not mean it's a fake or a forgery!!! In fairness, this should include: Also remember... Passing verification does not mean it's authentic.
	5 years ago	Post 17 • IP flag post

Collector 38	38 BradL private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	@Darkseid_of_town LOL, well that did not take long knew someone would post it
	5 years ago	Post 18 • IP flag post

Masculinity takes a holiday. 37.35K	37.35K EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by Phill59898 I definitely can see people faking as a certificate of authenticity. As they say, "Who watches the Watchmen?"
	5 years ago	Post 19 • IP flag post

-Our Odin- Rest in Peace 39.35K	39.35K Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by Siggy Quote: Originally Posted by Jesse_O And remember ... failing verification does not mean it's a fake or a forgery!!! In fairness, this should include: Also remember... Passing verification does not mean it's authentic. Do you have any proof of that?
	5 years ago	Post 20 • IP flag post

I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this. 78.9K	78.9K GAC private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 1
	Quote: Originally Posted by Siggy Quote: Originally Posted by Jesse_O And remember ... failing verification does not mean it's a fake or a forgery!!! In fairness, this should include: Also remember... Passing verification does not mean it's authentic. But it does mean its professionally verified.
	5 years ago	Post 21 • IP flag post

COLLECTOR 26.89K	26.89K dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 6
	Quote: Originally Posted by Jesse_O Quote: Originally Posted by Siggy Quote: Originally Posted by Jesse_O And remember ... failing verification does not mean it's a fake or a forgery!!! In fairness, this should include: Also remember... Passing verification does not mean it's authentic. Do you have any proof of that? . I definitely feel @Siggy made a fair statement. Signature verification, as I mentioned, is an opinion as to the authenticity of the signature. Even if there are currently no known examples I think it’s foolish to assume that 100% of the books that have and will ever pass Verification will be authentic. That is not to say that the service is inherently flawed or to suggest a multitude of forged books are being verified as authentic but to believe that EVERY book passing verification is absolutely authentic is a great deal of faith that even theories standing up to vigorous and repeated scientific testing do not enjoy. We can certainly say that signatures passing the verification process are MOST LIKELY authentic and that really is enough for most of us. But even 99% certainty means that one is not entirely certain
	5 years ago	Post 22 • IP flag post

-Our Odin- Rest in Peace 39.35K	39.35K Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 1
	Quote: Originally Posted by dielinfinite Quote: Originally Posted by Jesse_O Quote: Originally Posted by Siggy Quote: Originally Posted by Jesse_O And remember ... failing verification does not mean it's a fake or a forgery!!! In fairness, this should include: Also remember... Passing verification does not mean it's authentic. Do you have any proof of that? . I definitely feel @Siggy made a fair statement. Signature verification, as I mentioned, is an opinion as to the authenticity of the signature. Even if there are currently no known examples I think it’s foolish to assume that 100% of the books that have and will ever pass Verification will be authentic. That is not to say that the service is inherently flawed or to suggest a multitude of forged books are being verified as authentic but to believe that EVERY book passing verification is absolutely authentic is a great deal of faith that even theories standing up to vigorous and repeated scientific testing do not enjoy. We can certainly say that signatures passing the verification process are MOST LIKELY authentic. But even 99% certainty means that one is not entirely certain I agree, it would be foolish to think the system is 100% accurate. I have heard that there are examples in the card collecting community, but I have actually never seen proof. However, people are quick to repeat what @Siggy stated, yet they still think that a failed verification equates fake. I just don't get people some days. In short, people are strange.
	5 years ago	Post 23 • IP flag post

Collector 10.3K	10.3K GanaSoth private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 4
	Quote: Originally Posted by Jesse_O ...people are strange. Great song by The Doors !
	5 years ago	Post 24 • IP flag post

The apple sauce and pudding were the best part... 39.95K	39.95K Bronte private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 3
	People are definitely strange, but also predictable. Binary choices are easier for people to accept. Most people avoid grey areas. I would attribute it partly to immediate gratification vs delayed gratification. Most folks want the answer right now. If they need to dig deeper, how many folks will pursue it with diligence? Most folks become dejected and give up. I know if you start talking about car repairs, I dont want to hear it. I only want to know can it be fixed, and how much is it going to cost me? When in some cases if I had spent the time to learn a little about the topic I'd learn that preventive maintenance could have saved me a ton.
	5 years ago	Post 25 • IP flag post

I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this. 78.9K	78.9K GAC private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 6
	This is seeking advice of professionals, that's it. If you need legal advice you seek out a lawyer. Medical advice a doctor. Tax advice, an accountant etc. etc....so you either trust the advice of professionals or you don't.
	5 years ago	Post 26 • IP flag post

Collector 14.3K	14.3K Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by BradL @Darkseid_of_town LOL, well that did not take long knew someone would post it Why wouldnt I actually...you gave your description of what you think the process is...some guy sitting on a corner saying what he thinks.....I have worked on all sides of autograph identification, collecting and obtaining enough to know your remarks are to say the least...ill considered, and oversimplify a science many spend a lot of time studying, to the point of rudeness, so sure why not?
	5 years ago	Post 27 • IP flag post

COLLECTOR 26.89K	26.89K dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	@Darkseid_of_town I know your avatar is Zatanna but unless I’m focusing on it, it looks like Silver Surfer in my peripheral vision
	5 years ago	Post 28 • IP flag post

Collector 14.3K	14.3K Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	haha I hadn't noticed that....I hope she/he isn't too distracting for you !
	5 years ago	Post 29 • IP flag post

Collector 38	38 BradL private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	@dielinfinite Glad you didn't autograph that awesome art work is it would have to verified.
	5 years ago	Post 30 • IP flag post

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