Rob Liefeld is a genius and a master artist.11878
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shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by 00slim He is the Kardashian of the comic community. Most hate him. Many love to hate him. Lots of fanboys actually idolize him. He has very little skill, yet manages to stay very relevant, polarizing, and popular. Is it by design or is that just who he is? Idk, but good on him for playing the game and winning. |
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| Post 76 • IP flag post | ||
 I live in RI and Rhode Islanders eat chili with beans.
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esaravo private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Towmater - I simply disagree as to the importance of Liefeld to the history of comics. If he never existed, how much different would comics be today? If Jack Kirby never existed, the history of comics would be very different, and the very hobby we both love, might not even exist. Take away the Marvel Age of comics, and what would have happened to the industry? Take away Deadpool - as he was originally created, from the vast collection of heroes and villians that already exist, and what really changes? | ||
| Post 77 • IP flag post | ||
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Towmater private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @esaravo Sure, lets just leave out the lasting effect that the founders of Image had on the history of comics and creator's rights. He and the other founders changed the history of comics. | ||
| Post 78 • IP flag post | ||
 Moderators handing out titles: Boom. Roasted.
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Hcanes private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I think it is also a generational thing. I know what I am about to say is sacrilegious, but I look at Kirby's art and I just shrug. I'd rather have Ditko, but I digress. If I came up during that generation I probably would have appreciated him more. What I do respect is he did usher in a more dynamic storytelling with his art. Something Liefeld also started to push. I came up during the 80s and 90s wave and at the time I couldn't get enough of Liefeld. Looking back at it now, I ask myself why did I like this? Was the bar really this low? The problems I have with Kirby and Liefeld are the same. Overstylized characters with weird anatomy who all have the same face. You have the Liefeld constipation face and no feet. On the other side you have the ubiquitous Kirby face (they remind me of planet of the apes) and everyone's hands look like the Thing. Both artists were prolific in their art output. This is where they get my respect. I even use Kirby's mantra of keep pushing forward when I'm doing design work. I don't think you can remove either and the history of comics would be the same. Kirby helped keep Marvel going while defining a generation and without Liefeld who knows if Image comics happens. Despite my feelings I'd still take original art from both of them. As a fan of history both artists defined their generation. What I'm looking forward to is seeing which creative will be associated with defining the current landscape. |
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| Post 79 • IP flag post | ||
 I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Jack Kirby's career spans the 1930s to the 1990s, that's almost 60 years. He is responsible for creating Captain America + virtually every single important hero in the Marvel universe. His career is almost synonymous with comics history. He stands amongst a select few as THE most important figures in comics history. This can not be said of Liefeld and any attempt to do so diminishes the contributions of these titans that laid the foundations for Liefeld. You can like/love Liefeld but come on, let's not put him in the same company as Kirby, Eisner, Siegel and Shuster, Kane, Lee etc... | ||
| Post 80 • IP flag post | ||
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Jabberwookie private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @GAC I tend to agree with you here. KISS got mentioned earlier and I think it’s a fitting analogy. Did Kiss sell a lot albums? Did they have a rabidly loyal following? Are they a fan-friendly band? Would music be changed if they didn’t exist? I think you can say yes to all those. But, is Kiss exceptionally talented? Did they write challenging lyrics and musical arrangements? Are they critically acclaimed? I think you can answer no to all those. I think it boils down to they (and Rob) brought something to their respective mediums, but it was probably more marketing and promotion than the actual art. That’s still a skill, and it mattered, but it can appear to be more hollow than being a great artist. |
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| Post 81 • IP flag post | ||
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I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Jabberwookie I don't think anyone is saying you can't like or love Liefeld or Kiss...(I like 70s Kiss)...but one should not say Kiss (even 70s Kiss) is the new Mozart or Beethoven etc. Its the comparison to the greats where people will begin to chime in. Even this though, I know we're not changing anybody's mind...if someone thinks Kiss is better than Mozart, so be it...if Liefeld is the new Kirby, so be it...but when we're talking about comparing polarizing figures to beloved and generally agreed upon greats, one has to expect pushback. | ||
| Post 82 • IP flag post | ||
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Towmater private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Its funny to read that Kirby created everything in Marvel. Yet the age he created everything and every character for them is called the Marvel Age of Comics. It ain't called the Kirby Age of Comics. Why? Because of the work for hire contract and the idea that the company pushed that the properties they owned were more important than their creators. A bunch of young smart talented creators took a gamble. They went out on their own. They decided that they would own their own creations. Because of that they destroyed the work for hire model. They changed comics. They provided a choice when there wasn't one. I will concede the point that none of the Image Founders have worked in comics for 60 years. To have done so the oldest one would have had to have been under a work for hire contract when he was under the age of 10.  |
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| Post 83 • IP flag post | ||
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Jabberwookie private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @GAC I agree completely. In a roundabout way, I was trying to say they both made contributions. Whether they are good contributions might up for debate. And just to clarify, I don’t think the Liefeld-Kirby comparison holds up, either. I’m not a fan nor do I hate him so I have no dog I’m this fight. |
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| Post 84 • IP flag post | ||
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I live in RI and Rhode Islanders eat chili with beans.
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esaravo private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Towmater Like @Hcanes said, it is probably a generational thing, with me being an old man that grew up in the 1960's and 1970's - a time period dominated by Jack Kirby. And using your quote (to which I added some bold), I put Liefeld in with that group of other founders - McFarlane, Lee, Larsen, Silvestri, etc. And I could be wrong, but in my opinion (and feel free to disagree, that's what's great about opinions), McFarlane was the most important of that group for his contributions to the comic industry. I will also add that long before Image, guys like Jim Steranko, Neal Adams, and even Kirby had been trying for years to gain more ownership of their properties. This is why so many artists would go back and forth between the two main companies, to get a better deal. Also don't forget that before Image was created there were other independent comic companies - First, Eclipse, and Pacific Comics, among others, who helped pave the way for Image. Obviously Image won the battle - they are still around today. I respect your right to have an opinion that differs from mine. And I love it when I see passion for something, especially anything to do with comics - we need more of it for the industry to survive another few decades (and hopefully much more). Then our children can argue over who's the next Liefeld, continuing the circle. |
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| Post 85 • IP flag post | ||
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Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Image and Liefield? Wasn't it Liefield that had to be removed from the CEO position of that group just to keep it from getting so hostile and overrun with drama it fell apart years ago? "Several of the partners complained that Liefeld was using his position as CEO of Image to promote and perhaps even to financially support Maximum Press, a publishing company that Liefeld operated separately from Image. Silvestri withdrew Top Cow from Image in 1996 (although he retained his partnership in the company), protesting that Liefeld was recruiting artists from his studio, including highly popular Michael Turner (Witchblade). The other five partners discussed ousting Liefeld from the company, and Liefeld resigned in September 1996, giving up his share of the company Apparently Image wasn't all peaches and apple pie huh.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_Comics |
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| Post 86 • IP flag post | ||
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Towmater private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @esaravo I grew up in the 60's and 70's too. I didn't read comics as a child though. I started reading comics in the 1980's. My first memory of reading a comic was a Miller Daredevil. That's what shaped my "idea" of what a comic should be, look like, and the quality of story I should expect. Does Liefeld's work on any book stand up to Miller's run on Daredevil? No, not at all. Nonetheless, it doesn't alter my views that Rob is as important as Miller, or Kirby. I have the ability to see that they are equally as important to the history of comics. They are important to the history of the hobby in different ways. | ||
| Post 87 • IP flag post | ||
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I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Some could say that Peter McNeeley is as equally important to boxing as Mohammed Ali was....you could say it...but you'd be wrong. | ||
| Post 88 • IP flag post | ||
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Towmater private msg quote post Address this user | |
Not if he did it for 60 years according to some. He'd be more important. |
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| Post 89 • IP flag post | ||
 I've spent years perfecting my brand of assholery.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by 00slim Perhaps, but Liefeld is certainly better than Ditko. I have always disliked Ditko's art. |
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| Post 90 • IP flag post | ||
 Masculinity takes a holiday.
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DrWatson My first experience with Ditko was in Daredevil as a kid. Finally found an early issue of the Frank Miller run that I could afford (something like #163). Turned out to be a filler issue reprinting a Ditko story. From then on he became known as Stupid Freakin Ditko! I agree, never saw the appeal in his art. |
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| Post 91 • IP flag post | ||
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Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
| When I was around nine years old my mother and father took a busload of girl scouts from Kansas to see the sights in Washington DC, and New York.In New York in a subway vendors newsstand my mother bought me two comic books...Kamandi 1, and New Gods 7..the following day we went to the statue of liberty which is so prominent on the cover of Kamandi 1.....its little wonder I grew up thinking Jack Kirby was the man who did all comic books...once I got older and understood the hobby I realized my perception as a child hadn't been far off.... Years later while I was wandering a comic book store getting my little brother transformers issues to keep his run current...I asked the owner about those two long lost comics I couldn't remember the names to or the person who did them...we found the Kamandi easily...the new gods 7 took a month or two....but once we did I was off and running, and never looked back. Some 14,000 books later...here we are. Thanks Jack Kirby for making the trip interesting for me....if I had been a child of the nineties Liefield might have been that guy, but he wasn't for me. |
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| Post 92 • IP flag post | ||
 PLOD
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theCapraAegagrus private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DrWatson Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat... |
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| Post 93 • IP flag post | ||
 Beaten by boat oars
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Studley_Dudley private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I'm pretty sure Kiss was always upfront in their intentions. I've seen interviews with Gene and Paul and they claim the same motivation for Kiss. They wanted to create a spectacle of the rock concert, make money and get women. I think they accomplished all three. I like Kirby. I'm not a crazy huge fan, but I like and respect his contributions. What I've seen with Kirby's work is that the man could illustrate action like a champ. That part of his storytelling style is great. Liefeld is Liefeld. He has a style that is his own as well. Some people like it, some people hate it. I mean they really hate it. At this point, I almost feel like he embraces it and trolls it on purpose. As a kid, I enjoyed his work because he was in that style of Todd, Lee, Silvestri and Larsen, and that's what I grew up reading. The guy is doing something right because we're still talking about him. |
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| Post 94 • IP flag post | ||
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dpiercy private msg quote post Address this user | |
This is one of my fav Kirby pieces, called “Street Code” it has so much energy. |
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| Post 95 • IP flag post | ||
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I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @dpiercy its brilliant!!! Here's another Kirby masterpiece....you can feel the power and drama.  |
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| Post 96 • IP flag post | ||
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I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| His art was always about power and emotion...its visceral. You can feel his art. | ||
| Post 97 • IP flag post | ||
 -Our Odin-Rest in Peace |
Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user | |
I gotta admit, I do like this Starfire that Liefeld did!!!!! |
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| Post 98 • IP flag post | ||
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I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Jesse_O Definitely!! | ||
| Post 99 • IP flag post | ||
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Towmater private msg quote post Address this user | |
In honor of this being the 100th post in the thread |
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| Post 100 • IP flag post | ||
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I live in RI and Rhode Islanders eat chili with beans.
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esaravo private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Here's a story about how Image Comics originally wanted every one of their comics to say "Presented by Jack Kirby," so they could both honor the King and rub Marvel's noses in it. clickable text |
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| Post 101 • IP flag post | ||
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WalkinWillie private msg quote post Address this user | |
| My take on Liefeld is when he takes his time like on the Hawk and Dove mini-series and the first few issues of New Mutants he did, he is not bad. But when he rushes his work like he does on 99% of it, it is horrible. Not only that but he never met a deadline he couldn't miss. | ||
| Post 102 • IP flag post | ||
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dpiercy private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I like Liefeld’s enthusiasm for the hobby and, sometimes, I like his art. He *clearly* has ego issues, however. Anyone remember his collaboration with Robert Kirkman, The Infinite, from 2012? There was a lengthy article on Bleeding Cool, with visuals, detailing how Kirkman was unhappy with Liefeld for making the inker finish his half-assed work. It was very telling and is no longer on the web. | ||
| Post 103 • IP flag post | ||
 Ima gonna steal this and look for some occasion to use it!
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IronMan private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DrWatson I just threw up a little bit in my mouth.... Sorry. But to each his own. I think highly of DrWatson and many others here that have said they like his work. So you like his stuff, collect it. Maybe it's a generational thing. I'm older than most of you kids here |
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| Post 104 • IP flag post | ||
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Ima gonna steal this and look for some occasion to use it!
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IronMan private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Jesse_O The reason I like this is it doesn't actually look like Liefeld's work LOL. So maybe what some have said is true. If he really tries and puts time into it, his art is a lot better. |
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| Post 105 • IP flag post | ||
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