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THE THREAD THAT KILLED ALL CORONAVIRUS TALK.11811

Moderator Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user
This is a continuation of the first coronavirus thread.

Here are the guidelines:

1) This thread will be the only thread for coronavirus related topics, memes, videos, music, data, etc. This includes news about conventions. All existing threads are either locked or will be. Any future ones will be deleted.

2) Discussion of legal medicines related to coronavirus treatment or vaccination will be allowed. Keep in mind that so far, there are no medical doctors on this forum to our knowledge.

3) Keep the discussion civil and topical. No politics. That even includes names.

No politics means: no names of current or past political officials and candidates from any nation; no mentioning of any past or current political parties of any nation; no memes or pictures of a political nature; no comments or editorials on the political policies of any nation; no videos of a political nature; no links to any site or article of a political nature; in short, if you think it may be political, don't post it! This includes making comments that insinuate topics or people of a political nature (i.e. - the "orange haired guy" comments are done). I honestly don't care about people's political leanings, but this thread is not the place to share them. Posting articles and videos from a political source (like the White House) is ok if the content isn't political. These rules apply to this thread only. If you feel anyone violated these rules, report the thread or pm me.

4) If, or when, this thread fills up, a new one will be started.

If things get out of hand, the coronavirus topic will be banned totally from this forum. People are complaining that they want a distraction from it and come here to do that. When there are multiple threads and comments, it takes away from the enjoyment.

Honestly, isn't that what comics are about? They are entertainment meant to distract us for a bit.
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Rock, Paper, Scissors, Lizard, Spock Tedsaid private msg quote post Address this user
Well, here's some good news. Oxford University took a giant leap forward this week on finding a vaccine. They think they will have something ready to go by September. They had already done research on, and developed, an inoculation for a closely related virus. So that made it easier. (A team in Israel has a similar story, and are in human trials now.) Well, they gave the vaccine to rhesus macaque monkeys and then exposed the monkeys to heavy quantities of SARS-CoV-2. All the monkeys were protected.

So they've already begun human trials on this one - 550 with the vaccine, and 550 with a placebo. That's risky for half of them, of course. I mean, more risky than taking a drug that protects monkeys. If the numbers work out where we think they are, 22 of the 550 will get sick, and 4-5 will get VERY sick, and 1 will die.

But maybe they didn't take risky volunteers, with underlying conditions? Or no older ones? Maybe the numbers are not quite so bad for this group ... perhaps better than average.

Well. They're pretty confident in this vaccine, so they've already started ramping up production. By next month they will start producing millions of doses, even before they know if it's any good. That's how they hope to be ready by September.
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Collector Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user
Has to show more promise than the different anti malarial drugs that were so touted and seem to have failed so miserably …..
Post 3 IP   flag post
Thick Skinned OGJackster private msg quote post Address this user
clickable text
Coronavirus vaccine developed in the UK could be ready by fall, if it works


Post 4 IP   flag post
Thick Skinned OGJackster private msg quote post Address this user
Watching these Gorillas sing and fart made me wonder, are primates susceptible to Covid-19?

Post 5 IP   flag post
Collector Bronte private msg quote post Address this user
@OGJackster

If tigers can get it, I would imagine the answer is yes.

The real question is if it is communicable via farts....
Post 6 IP   flag post
Collector Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/mar/24/coronavirus-poses-lethal-threat-to-great-apes-experts-warn
Post 7 IP   flag post
Collector Bronte private msg quote post Address this user
The Hill: CDC recommends social distancing for pets after some test positive for coronavirus | TheHill.
https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/494973-cdc-recommends-social-distancing-for-pets
Post 8 IP   flag post
Collector Gaard private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkseid_of_town
...buying, prepping and cleaning and restoring dinosaur fossils


This sounds fascinating. But at the same time it also sounds like tedious work. I don't think I could do it.

*quote is from the previous thread
Post 9 IP   flag post
Collector Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user
There is nothing more tedious, more demanding physically or more time consuming fossil prep, especially when done on a budget or at home minus the settings of a lab.

When you consider a fully equipped paleo lab with sufficient matrix removal , acid suspension, and micro jacks costs about ten thousand dollars per square foot, doing it at home on a dime is more cost efficient, but also requires more manual and time consuming efforts.

Still the end result can be quite rewarding and if you are doing it simply to have or own for yourself, the thrill is unbeatable. Owning or having a portion of an animal that can be identified and verified , that lived 200-300 million years ago is undeniable.
Trace fossils are easier and require much less effort, are more common, and cheaper but not quite as satisfying normally. I dabble in all of it but I admit that I like trying to acquire portions of every dinosaur I can put a name to if I can, budget allowing, resources and time as well
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Collector Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronte
The Hill: CDC recommends social distancing for pets after some test positive for coronavirus | TheHill.
https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/494973-cdc-recommends-social-distancing-for-pets
This has been what worries me even more than the ramifications for humans themselves...the ability of this virus to bridge the species gap and infect cats in particular, as well as dogs.
Post 11 IP   flag post
Collector Bronte private msg quote post Address this user
I have not heard of death rates of pets, but from what I understand, the tiger and a few other zoo animals have not been declared deceased yet. I'm hoping this doesnt affect animals as intensely as humans.


Slightly deviating, as a child, my sister and I got sick and the doctor told my parents to separate us because we were passing it back and forth between the two of us. If a pet can get sick, can they pass it back to the human? As far as I am aware, reinfections although unlikely, have not been ruled out. If yes, the pet isnt going to understand social distancing. I dont have pets, but my assumption is people tend to play with their pets and close contact is inevitable.
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Collector GanaSoth private msg quote post Address this user
I'd take the vaccine from Israel before I would anywhere else. They are after all, leading the world in technology.
Post 13 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR Towmater private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedsaid
Well, here's some good news. Oxford University took a giant leap forward this week on finding a vaccine. They think they will have something ready to go by September. They had already done research on, and developed, an inoculation for a closely related virus. So that made it easier. (A team in Israel has a similar story, and are in human trials now.) Well, they gave the vaccine to rhesus macaque monkeys and then exposed the monkeys to heavy quantities of SARS-CoV-2. All the monkeys were protected.

So they've already begun human trials on this one - 550 with the vaccine, and 550 with a placebo. That's risky for half of them, of course. I mean, more risky than taking a drug that protects monkeys. If the numbers work out where we think they are, 22 of the 550 will get sick, and 4-5 will get VERY sick, and 1 will die.

But maybe they didn't take risky volunteers, with underlying conditions? Or no older ones? Maybe the numbers are not quite so bad for this group ... perhaps better than average.

Well. They're pretty confident in this vaccine, so they've already started ramping up production. By next month they will start producing millions of doses, even before they know if it's any good. That's how they hope to be ready by September.


I posted about this in the other thread. The article you provided is misleading. According to the NYT story the manufacturing companies in Asia and Europe are preparing to produce billions of doses of the vaccine if it proves successful. The North American makers haven't entered into an agreement with Oxford. Prof. Adrian Hill, the Jenner Institute’s director, indicated that one possible reason may be because they typically demand exclusive worldwide rights before they will invest in a medicine. He commented, “I personally don’t believe that in a time of pandemic there should be exclusive licenses. So we are asking a lot of them. Nobody is going to make a lot of money off this.


Also, if anyone wants to look at a map of how the shutdown will possibly effect family practice offices/doctors/their staff and the shortages of those offices coming to many counties across the USA in April, May, and June 2020...

"Coronavirus Pandemic-Related Potential Family Medicine Office Closures and Economic Impact, April through June 2020" visualization

(The model assumes three to four percent attrition (loss) of individual Family Medicine physicians each week. In the model, each county loses a minimum of three percent of its physicians per week.)
Post 14 IP   flag post
Collector GanaSoth private msg quote post Address this user
It's all about money.... not saving lives.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Towmater

The North American makers haven't entered into an agreement with Oxford. Prof. Adrian Hill, the Jenner Institute’s director, indicated that one possible reason may be because they typically demand exclusive worldwide rights before they will invest in a medicine.
Post 15 IP   flag post
Collector GanaSoth private msg quote post Address this user
Talk about "conspiracy theories" how does this one grab ya.

But before watching the video, you remember when I shared an article about the Covid-19 test that were contaminated with the actual virus? Giving people the virus while supposedly testing them.
Click or Touch here to read that story.

Now watch this video:
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Thick Skinned OGJackster private msg quote post Address this user
The largest Arctic ozone hole ever recorded is now closed

clickable text
Post 17 IP   flag post
Collector Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronte
I have not heard of death rates of pets, but from what I understand, the tiger and a few other zoo animals have not been declared deceased yet. I'm hoping this doesnt affect animals as intensely as humans.


Slightly deviating, as a child, my sister and I got sick and the doctor told my parents to separate us because we were passing it back and forth between the two of us. If a pet can get sick, can they pass it back to the human? As far as I am aware, reinfections although unlikely, have not been ruled out. If yes, the pet isnt going to understand social distancing. I dont have pets, but my assumption is people tend to play with their pets and close contact is inevitable.
The zoo animals were all treated and recovered subsequently.

The virus can and does adversely affect cats in particular, and can be deadly in the right circumstances for them as well.
The positive is that the virus seems a one way street, we can pass it off to animals, but they cannot subsequently infect either the original people that infected them or others.
So far at least there seem to be no documented cases of pets passing the virus to humans ….beyond the original leap from animal to human transmission.

PS the worrisome part in cats so easily acquiring the virus becomes...then can they subsequently pass it along to smaller rodents they interact with..mice, rats, possums , skunks etc. Do we then see a cycle of deaths related to the virus in the downline of rodentary species below the level of felidae?
This has been my concern and remains an unknown...if they cats can pass it among themselves easily, can they also pass it to other species of mammal with similar traits?
Post 18 IP   flag post
Collector EbaySeller private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by GanaSoth
you remember when I shared an article about the Covid-19 test that were contaminated with the actual virus? Giving people the virus while supposedly testing them.


@GanaSoth I read that article but I had a different understanding. What I remember was not that the test was giving the virus to the subjects. The control sample was tainted with the virus so when they compared the subjects results to the control sample they got a false negative when in fact the test should have shown positive for Covid-19.
Post 19 IP   flag post
Collector Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user
This was also my understanding as well. The contamination was within the CDC lab itself, in the comparison cultures that were used to help identify positives vs negatives......from the materials I read at least.
Post 20 IP   flag post
Collector GanaSoth private msg quote post Address this user
@EbaySeller @Darkseid_of_town
This is what I gathered from there article.

They were both manufacturing and testing, sharing lab space. It said that it was contaminated during manufacturing, not during testing results.

"The CDC said in a statement Saturday to the Times that the agency “did not manufacture its test consistent with its own protocol.” Though the CDC appeared reluctant to admit contamination was at the root of the problem, the Times noted that in a separate statement the CDC seemed to acknowledge such problems, saying the agency has since “implemented enhanced quality control to address the issue and will be assessing the issue moving forward.”

That to me indicates they were making test kits that "accidentally" got cross-contamination. It states during manufacturing" not "during testing results."

"The CDC had been vague about what went wrong with the tests, initially only saying that “a problem in the manufacturing of one of the reagents” had led to the failure."

That's the way I read it.

But that video is pretty damning.
Post 21 IP   flag post
Collector xkonk private msg quote post Address this user
Yes, the contamination happened during manufacturing of the tests. The contamination meant that the control tests accidentally had a little bit of the virus in them: "Subsequent reporting suggested that the problem was with a negative control—that is, a part of the test meant to be free of any trace of the coronavirus as a critical reference for confirming that the test was working properly overall."

All that means is that you can't use the tests for testing, which is obviously bad but not nefarious. The test doesn't work by injecting anything into anybody. A person being tested only ever gets a long q-tip jammed up their nose. The actual testing, and the contaminated samples, are only back at the testing labs.

"The testing relies on a multistep regimen that starts when a six-inch synthetic-tipped swab is used to gather a sample of mucus from a person’s nasal passage or throat. That sample is delivered to a lab in a sealed container.

At the lab, nucleic acid is extracted from the sample and placed into a small tube, along with solutions of various chemical reagents, including an enzyme that converts viral RNA, if present, into DNA.

Once the DNA is made, portions of the solution are transferred to tiny plastic cups, containing additional reagents to help detect whether the virus is present. The cups are placed into the PCR machine, which roughly resembles a midsize office photocopier.

The process seeks to copy and amplify targeted regions of the coronavirus genome. If the virus is present in the original sample, a detectable, fluorescent dye is released.

The CDC provided most of the necessary materials for each of the kits’ original three components.

The labs were instructed by the CDC to demonstrate that the test would work before analyzing samples from patients.

But when those facilities began using the kits to analyze a negative control sample — highly purified water supplied by each lab and free of any genetic material — the tests wrongly signaled the presence of the coronavirus."
Post 22 IP   flag post
Collector Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user
This is also what I understood from my reading as well. the actual contamination was still within the CDC labs, which is bad news, but they weren't out there infecting people with the tests being used to my understanding.
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Collector EbaySeller private msg quote post Address this user
I do find it fascinating how theories get going and gain traction. Yesterday my good friend and neighbor told me that Alabama is trying to kill off black people by reopening the things that black people do. I said what are those things? He says Barber shops, hair salons, bowling alleys. I ask "don't white people in Alabama bowl or get haircuts?" He says "well they're not opening the malls or tennis courts or golf courses, that's what White people do" (he is black and golfs regularly by the way). I just laughed and added ski slopes to that list. But I checked the facts and Alabama has had like a total of 150 deaths and many golf courses were never closed. The neighbor is headed to Palm Springs to find an open golf course for the weekend. I'm going to stay here and pound my head against a wall in hopes of better understanding him.
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COLLECTOR Towmater private msg quote post Address this user
I to find it fascinating how theories get going. I'm tired of all the doom and gloom crap though (that isn't aimed at anyone). That is just a general comment. From what I remember, the objective of the shutdown was to stop the hospitals from being overrun via flatting the curve. For the large majority of the USA that has occurred.

A one size fits all approach can no longer be applied to every state nor should the doomers expect or try to shame the states that want to do things differently than they believe things should be done.
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Collector Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user
From what I have read the CDC has put forward some rather obvious steps to meet before any district reopens for business. Testing, tracking and the demonstration of a consecutive period of lowered reported cases are among the main ones offered. It is rather obvious most states do not have in place the tracking needed to trace down each infected person or their contacts....aside from the testing fiasco to date. So there is in fact much work that still needs done to meet the guidelines offered by the CDC for anyone to consider opening up and just going at it.
A one size approach is kinda obviously needed cause opening up this state but not this one is sort of the same concept as having a no peeing zone in a swimming pool isn't it?
Shaming is a two way street, by the way and name calling and placing labels on people who dont agree with a given set of views is....hardly attractive or well considered.
Post 26 IP   flag post
Collector EbaySeller private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Towmater
From what I remember, the objective of the shutdown was to stop the hospitals from being overrun via flatting the curve. For the large majority of the USA that has occurred.

A one size fits all approach can no longer be applied to every state nor should the doomers expect or try to shame the states that want to do things differently than they believe things should be done.


Both of these things have been bothering me more than anything else. The shut-down was to keep the healthcare system from being over-run and cascading into tragedy. Now the opposite has happened in many places and clinics and hospitals are being closed because of under-utilization and the bar has been changed on the reasons for the shut-down.

My parents live in Oregon with 128 projected Covid-19 deaths. There is no rational reason why they should be living under the same circumstances as New York with 24,314 projected fatalities. There never was a rational reason other than that this has become basically a competition amongst state and local officials for bragging rights on who keeps the numbers lowest. And to your point, a CYA culture that immediately embraces each new Protocol and restriction idea that someone comes up with.
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Collector EbaySeller private msg quote post Address this user
Also disturbing, as of yesterday in California only 1 in 8 Unemployment applications has recieved a payment of any kind. Some of these people living month-to-month have been out of work for 5-6 weeks now.
Post 28 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR Towmater private msg quote post Address this user
@EbaySeller Even the states that have had more cases than others never had their healthcare system overrun to the point there were not enough ventilators. The USN Comfort left NYC a couple of hours ago. It left NYC after treating a total of 182 people. It was in NYC for a month. (I am glad that 620 doctors, nurses and other crew members are returning to the homeport in Norfolk, Virginia). All the field hospitals that were erected have been taken down or will be mothballed soon. Why?

According to AP News...Looking at projections in mid-March that NY state would need to double hospital capacity to 110,000 beds by the end of April, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers were asked to build at least four field hospitals and the Navy to deploy the Navy’s Comfort hospital ship to Manhattan"...

At the height of the outbreak, 18,825 beds, less than 20% of the predicted number, were needed in NY state. Only one of the Army Corps-built temporary facilities opened, at the Jacob K. Javits Convention Center. It will close Friday after treating little more than 1,000 patients, according to AP News.

Treating all states like they have the issues that the northeast faced is asinine. Each state can make their own decisions. They know there abilities to safely reopen, and the time table that should be implemented.

I think it comes down to this...
If you wanna close your beaches then do it. Just don't expect other places to follow along. If you wanna never shut down then do it. Just don't expect other places to follow along.
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Collector EbaySeller private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Towmater
At the height of the outbreak, 18,825 beds, less than 20% of the predicted number, were needed in NY state


As I mentioned yesterday in thread #1, I believe the modelers misunderstood when the virus arrived in communities. For example they were looking at Italy and Spain and assuming all that hospitalization had happened in the first 30-60 days when in fact we will probably learn that it had been more like 90-120 days. So the models saw a hospitalization and death rate that was far higher than reality.
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