Question for Community11567
 I'm waiting.... (tapping fingers).Splotches is gettin old! |
Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Over the years I've wondered why folks pay equal or more for low value (under $50) graded comics in which there are much higher raw grades available. It makes little sense to me, unless one is a pessimist in assuming there's hidden damage throughout most every raw comic sold. But regardless of my personal thoughts I though I'd toss this out as a fun "poll" if you will. Both these books sold for roughly the same amount recently. (under 50) Which would you purchase if you were interested in this book for the same price? (Note: Back cover is in similar condition of the raw picture) Raw or graded one?   |
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| Post 1 • IP flag post | ||
 I had no way of knowing that 9.8 graded copies signed by Adam Hughes weren't what you were looking for.
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drchaos private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Not everyone is confident in their ability to grade a raw book, especially at a comic show with poor lighting. Restoration can be difficult to spot as well. |
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| Post 2 • IP flag post | ||
 The apple sauce and pudding were the best part...
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Bronte private msg quote post Address this user | |
| For books under a hundred, I might take a risk on a raw book. However, I cant grade worth a crap and typically cant trust my own judgement. It's easier to just buy a graded book that has been checked for restoration or clipped coupons than take a risk. |
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| Post 3 • IP flag post | ||
 Beaten by boat oars
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Studley_Dudley private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I prefer to buy raw books and have zero problems buying an expensive raw book from a seller I trust. In the rare event I've had a book come back with restoration or some other undisclosed flaw, then that seller has taken care of me and made it right. I think it's only happened once or twice. In the example above, I probably wouldn't bother buying a graded copy unless it was high grade like 9.2 or higher. On the other hand, I have a friend who is into buying low grade books raw or graded because that's what he prefers. I would guess it is like anything else in the hobby, and that it is all up to personal preference. | ||
| Post 4 • IP flag post | ||
 I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Nuffsaid111 All the work is done for you in the graded book...all I need to do is look at the 6.0 and decide if I agree with the grade and that it presents well. The raw book is filled with mystery. The raw book looks whiter than the graded book but I have no idea if that's the picture or lighting etc. So I can't say for sure. I don't know if the raw book is restored or missing pages or sections. I dont know for sure the grade of the raw book because all I have to go buy is pictures. If the seller is stating the raw book grade is anywhere near the slabbed book grade, without question I'm buying the slabbed. If the seller is stating the raw book is considerably higher in grade then I have to research the seller (i.e. does he tend to over grade...I'll read all his feedback if we're talking eBay). If I agree the raw book is indeed higher graded than the slab for similar price than I'll go for the raw. |
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| Post 5 • IP flag post | ||
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I'm waiting.... (tapping fingers). Splotches is gettin old! |
Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Studley_Dudley Im with you. I guess i just never understand when folks use vague terms about personal preference. Personal preference does not explain the "why". For the life of me, how many under $50 books are being restored? I dunno... it seems like risk based economics here. I just dont get why a clear cut high grade raw book would sell for same amount as graded lower value. It's just illogical to me for value based, risk based choices |
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| Post 6 • IP flag post | ||
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Beaten by boat oars
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Studley_Dudley private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I would venture to guess that not many cheap books are being restored, but I have had a few purchases less than $100 that I sent in come back with restoration. DD 158, and XM 101 both come to mind. Both were purchased by me on ebay, and both came back with color touch. As far as under $50 being restored? Not many, unless it is one of those $10 books that spikes for a few months due to some new hype. Even then, would it really be worth color touching a few copies to make not a lot on the return? Probably not. | ||
| Post 7 • IP flag post | ||
 You do know that the new guy brings the donuts, right?
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DWeeB1967 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| It depends on the situation. If I am buying from an LCS or from a convention where I can examine the raw book, open it, check for clipped coupons, loose centerfolds, color touch, etc. then I'd be much more likely to buy raw. When shopping from a website or from eBay, if, as @Studley_Dudley stated, I'm buying from a dealer that I trust, I'd be okay buying raw. If I do not have history with the dealer or I have found his/her grading to be suspect, then I prefer to buy slabbed simply because I can be relatively sure that the book I'm buying is in the condition that is stated. I can also be fairly sure that the checks that I'd perform with a raw comic (missing coupon, etc.) have already been performed by the grader(s). |
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| Post 8 • IP flag post | ||
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I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Colour touch was a thing before the collector community frowned upon it. People will CT a book they have zero intention of selling and for pure cosmetic reasons to improve the look of the book for their collection. Some of these books eventually hit the market.....especially when the hobby heats up. In today's collector climate it makes no sense to CT a cheap book....30 years+ ago...maybe it didnt matter as much...those books are out there. | ||
| Post 9 • IP flag post | ||
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I had no way of knowing that 9.8 graded copies signed by Adam Hughes weren't what you were looking for.
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drchaos private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Also, keep in mind that most of us are far more comfortable buying raw books at shows or comic stores where we have the opportunity to carefully inspect the book for damage or restoration. Buying a raw book online and taking the seller's word for it is a dubious proposition when you can simply buy a similar book that has been graded and authenticated by a third party. | ||
| Post 10 • IP flag post | ||
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I'm waiting.... (tapping fingers). Splotches is gettin old! |
Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| So what are everyone's data driven experience with under 50/60 dollar books as it pertains to restoration that they've purchased online/shows/anywhere? I can tell you mine are probably 0.1% of total. Again, risk based criteria. Why purchase a lower given grade than a clearly much higher grade if the likelihood of restoration is in the neighborhood of negligible? The value at stake to be clear is $50 minus resale of CT book OR one just returns the book if you're savvy enough to detect the restoration. So again... what is really at stake here from a loss perspective on low cost (50 dollar) books. It just doesn't seem to all add up to the choice to purchasing the lower graded copy from a logical, risk based perspective. Yes of course there is a chance. There's a chance for anything. It seems like taking the graded route is the 0% risk vs. negligible risk based for raw that is higher albeit a small chance for restoration. I suppose for the folks who have zero risk tolerance and zero capability to grade on their own and zero capability of determining restoration, zero desire to make a return, it makes sense. But I can't think of other reasons Just my thoughts |
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| Post 11 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
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Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
| The chance or risk is not neglible though...it used to be fairly common practice to run a black marker down the spine of a black cover book, or trim the edges to hide fraying or chews. Without the book in hand to spot the issues, its a dicey decision at best... I have thousands of silver age books and many are worth far less than the 50 dollar threshold mentioned here, but at some point in time , some owner or dealer chose to take a marker and fill in little spots of lost color or touch the spine, or hit that one corner to make the book look a bit nicer..... I can also add its quite difficult spotting those restorations from an online image, or web site..without the book in hand to feel the changes in the paper, or the inks or being able to move it around under natural light and watch for changes in the refraction and dullness in areas. |
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| Post 12 • IP flag post | ||
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I'm waiting.... (tapping fingers). Splotches is gettin old! |
Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Darkseid_of_town Why not return it and get all your money back once you have it in hand? |
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| Post 13 • IP flag post | ||
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I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Nuffsaid111 I do agree with you, the risk of restoration is quite low on inexpensive books. To answer your initial question; why folks pay equal or more for low value (under $50) graded comics in which there are much higher raw grades available. I think there's a threshold for collectors. I guess we need to define "much higher raw grades". What magnitude of grade discrepancy are we talking about? If the slabbed grade is 6.0 and the advertised raw grade is 7.0...I'll take the slabbed. If the raw grade is 8.5 or higher (and I agree with it and the seller is reputable etc.) then I'll buy the raw. |
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| Post 14 • IP flag post | ||
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I'm waiting.... (tapping fingers). Splotches is gettin old! |
Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by GAC Good point! I guess using the examples in the original images would be a good example |
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| Post 15 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Nuffsaid111so its a fifty dollar book, bought and shipped at a cost of ten bucks..returning it is another ten bucks and involves a confrontation and sometimes fallout from a disgruntled seller or dealer, or worse.....diminishing returns for a book worth so little to start with....why mess with all that? |
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| Post 16 • IP flag post | ||
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The apple sauce and pudding were the best part...
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Bronte private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Nuffsaid111 If the book was 50$ and I had to pack, ship, and take to the post office, I'd be pissed. Id rather just eat the loss. And that's IF the seller isnt going to be an ass. |
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| Post 17 • IP flag post | ||
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I'm waiting.... (tapping fingers). Splotches is gettin old! |
Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Thanks guys. I guess you just buy the graded book, and I'll buy the ungraded, submit and then reap the rewards of your 0 risk; 0 tolerance; etc.  |
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| Post 18 • IP flag post | ||
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I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Nuffsaid111 I get what you're saying but for me it's about getting it right the first time. I don't want hassles or wasted time in dealing with differing grade opinions. I don't want the joy of getting a wanted book sullied by lazy or unscrupulous sellers. I'll happily pay a premium for a positive experience and accurate product purchase. | ||
| Post 19 • IP flag post | ||
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I'm waiting.... (tapping fingers). Splotches is gettin old! |
Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| So In summary - from the very original post, it's fair to say everyone who has commented in this thread would take the Graded 6.0 Luke Cage #2 over the Raw Luke Cage #2 (which was my original question)? Correct? |
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| Post 20 • IP flag post | ||
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Beaten by boat oars
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Studley_Dudley private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I'm going raw. Edit: If I'm buying a Luke Cage #2, it would most likely be raw. The raw you have in the picture looks better than the slabbed copy (to me at least). If the raw is a VF, then yes, I would just go raw. If I were to buy a slabbed copy, then I would probably be looking at getting in the 9.0 and up range for a slab. I can get a slabbed 9.0 of #1 from my LCS for +/- $850, so a #2 should be in a worthwhile price range for me at 9.0 or better. |
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| Post 21 • IP flag post | ||
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I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Nuffsaid111 what grade would you give the raw....I'm assessing it as well... | ||
| Post 22 • IP flag post | ||
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I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| It's a good looking 6.0.....if the raw was agreed to be 8.0 or higher..I'd go for the raw....7.5 or lower,..I'd go for the slab. Assuming the price is the same....7.5 raw I'd have to take a hard look....I could possibly be swayed to get the raw at 7.5....I'd look at the cost of shipping too....everything....7.0 or lower for the raw definitely the slab. | ||
| Post 23 • IP flag post | ||
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I'm waiting.... (tapping fingers). Splotches is gettin old! |
Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I am of the belief 8.5 +/- 0.5 | ||
| Post 24 • IP flag post | ||
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The apple sauce and pudding were the best part...
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Bronte private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Edited and deleted. Reread original question |
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| Post 25 • IP flag post | ||
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I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Nuffsaid111 then the raw. |
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| Post 26 • IP flag post | ||
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You do know that the new guy brings the donuts, right?
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DWeeB1967 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Nuffsaid111 Not necessarily. Again, I'd have examine the entire raw book not simply the front cover. Assuming all else is identical, in this case, if the raw was substantially cheaper and being sold by a dealer I trust, I'd probably choose the raw. |
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| Post 27 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I wouldnt be buying a luke cage 2 regardless, but if I were and it was not in person, I would likely go with the slab | ||
| Post 28 • IP flag post | ||
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I'm waiting.... (tapping fingers). Splotches is gettin old! |
Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Darkseid_of_town You seem to have difficulty answering direct questions of "This" or "That" without commentary. Why is that? |
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| Post 29 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
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doog private msg quote post Address this user | |
| The only times I have bought slabbed is a couple that had minimal interest in EBay auctions that were not keys, (think Gorgo) that went ridiculously cheap. I like the buying raw, pressing, sending in, Its Christmas! game too much. In the given scenario, I would buy the slab.(in reality I would keep looking and put the $50 towards a book that could go in the 9’s as it’s a pretty common book.) |
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| Post 30 • IP flag post | ||
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