First appearances discussion: Character on the cover VS not on the cover11268
 Collector
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00slim private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I’ve honestly always thought if a book is a first appearance of a major character, if they are on the cover it’s just a bonus. It never occurred to me that it could have any drastic impact on the book’s long term value if the character is or isn’t on the cover. I saw a YouTube video recently that made me reconsider this. It won’t impact what I buy. If I’m looking for a first appearance of a given character, I don’t care if they’re on the cover. But perhaps it will help lower my expectations for a book’s potential rate of growth. What are your thoughts on the subject? |
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 I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I've tried to make sense of this situation and I've always failed. IH180 vs IH181 is the obvious and most recognized example. I wish I could understand how the market reconciles this and I wish the rationale was consistent. I have no idea. For me, a first appearance is a first appearance period, on cover or not shouldn't make a difference. |
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 Captain Accident
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the420bandito private msg quote post Address this user | |
| The only one that really bothers me is Strange Tales #110. To me it's a massive turn off. Love the character. Poop on the 1st app. | ||
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 Beaten by boat oars
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Studley_Dudley private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Uncanny X-Men Annual #14 vs Uncanny X-Men #266 Avengers #195 vs Avengers #196 Do you have the link for the video? |
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Collector
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00slim private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Yeah. Hulk 180 vs 181 is brought up a lot as an example. I do consider 180 a cameo and not a full first appearance since it’s really one panel on the last page. Still a great book to have & a smart investment. But the fact he’s on the cover of 181 may contribute to the drastic discrepancy in price between the two. |
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I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
Head to toe image of 1st Wolverine in Hulk 180. What's annoying about this is the inconsistency of the market. |
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Collector
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00slim private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Studley_Dudley It’s a video on 10 affordable X-Men Keys. But they bring up how a character being on the cover or not has impacted several of the books’ values. |
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I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| FF48 and FF49 is another example...although SS appearance complicates the argument. | ||
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Collector
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00slim private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by GAC He’s absolutely in the book. And it’s before 181, yes. But it’s such a brief a appearance, it qualifies as a cameo as opposed to being in the full book. But 180 will only grow in value as 181 becomes out of reach for many collectors. |
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Collector
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00slim private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by GAC That is a good one. Cuz Silver Surfer is on the cover of 49 & not 48. Yet 48 is worth a lot more. |
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I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| For me, consistency is key....its doesn't have to be logical, it just needs to be consistent. | ||
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 Collector
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kon_jelly private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Most of the time I don't understand when a first appearance doesn't count as a first appearance. ASM 299 is the first appearance of Venom. IH 180 is the first appearance of Wolverine. Sure they were only one panel each, but they still *appeared* in the comic. But that's not what the market has decided on those books, so what do I know. |
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Collector
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00slim private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by kon_jelly ASM 300 is an interesting example as well. Venom is certainly not on the cover, and yet that book has been super hot for years. |
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 Why just the women? I like bears.
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Gaard private msg quote post Address this user | |
| A first appearance is a first appearance. Simple as that. "Yeah, but he's not on the cover." So what? "Yeah, but he doesn't speak." So what? "Yeah, but it's only a panel or two." So what? A first appearance is a first appearance. Simple as that. |
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Collector
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kon_jelly private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by 00slim I mean I understand that a bit better - it's an iconic cover, it is an issue with an arguably more "important" number, and it's the first real story with the new character. But what it isn't is the first appearance of Venom. |
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 Collector
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Drogio private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Market doesn’t decide which book is a first appearance. Market decides which appearance is more desired. Cover appearances make books more slab worthy or aesthetically pleasing as you can enjoy it without opening the book. A character on the cover is visual confirmation the character plays a major role inside. If a character appears on the cover it’s usually the tie breaker Between a cameo in the first issue and a full(er) appearance in a subsequent issue. It’s all about “slab appeal.” |
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 past performance is no guarantee of future actions.
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KatKomics private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I was kind of shocked at the prices for ASM 316...first cover of Venom. Nowhere near ASM 300 but still... Need to dig it out to review grade and see if worth selling |
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Collector
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00slim private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Gaard That’s one point of view. The literal definition of a cameo is a brief appearance. If you count a cameo as the first appearance, that’s cool. But there’s a reason a cameo is differentiated from a full appearance. |
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past performance is no guarantee of future actions.
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KatKomics private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by 00slim but is there really a reason??? 180 - head to toe, full costume 2 word balloons! This guy??? Head, not even any neck, on a tv screen vs in person  I see no reasons for cameo vs appearance...market is what it is though and none of us here can affect it What was the old commercial...'I can't see the difference, can you see the difference???....price is the difference!" |
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Beaten by boat oars
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Studley_Dudley private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by 00slim Money? |
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 I've spent years perfecting my brand of assholery.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
| People would rather have 181 because he is in action on the cover. Jimmy Olsen 134 is not much different than Forever People 1 because Darkseid isn't on the cover of either book. So, 134 it is. | ||
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I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| So, is this the rationale then?: 1.) When a characters 1st appearance is a cameo and 2nd appearance he's on the cover...the 2nd appearance/cover is the desirable book. 2.) When a characters 1st appearance is a cameo and 2nd appearance he's not on a cover then the desirable book falls to the 1st cameo appearance. |
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I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by GAC Is there an example where this doesn't work? |
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Beaten by boat oars
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Studley_Dudley private msg quote post Address this user | |
 I know UXM 282 lists Bishop's 1st appearance as a cameo even though he is prominently named and featured on the cover. More desired than 283 which is the 1st full and also on the cover.  |
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 Collector
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BrashSmurf private msg quote post Address this user | |
| A cameo is a brief appearance of a well known character Wolverine was not well known in hulk 180 so it cannot be a cameo |
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I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by BrashSmurf incorrect...a cameo is a brief appearance. |
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 Collector
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Jabberwookie private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Let me throw some gas on this tire fire, too! How do you classify Venoms first appearance? Wouldn’t it actually be ASM 252? Or in story chronology secret wars 8? I mean you don’t have venom without the symbiote. So, that’s an outside the box thought there. And don’t even get me started on the imposter appearances now, like Domino. |
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I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Studley_Dudley here's an example where cover/cameo vs full appearance doesn't conform to the IH180/IH181 model. |
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past performance is no guarantee of future actions.
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KatKomics private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by BrashSmurf Wait, wait, wait....no character is well known when it's their first appearance!! So no such thing as a cameo pre dating a first appearance? |
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