Which is the best investment today...GS xmen 1 or Hulk 181..you decide10877
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Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I saw a discussion earlier on Facebook which quickly devolved into entrenched battle and flame war..... The question was...if you could pick either book to buy in lets say 8.0-9.0 grade....would it be Hulk 181 or GS x-men 1...? Some of the potential arguments made...someone attempted to derail the Giant size train by suggesting there had been a large warehouse find...others argue that while 181 is Hulk's first full appearance it isn't his first true appearance.Then that whole argument...180 first appearance, 181 first full appearance....but why is 181 worth so much compared then vs Jimmy Olsen 134 first cameo darkside vs his first full appearance in Forever people 1...etc. I admit I am in the moving forward, I see giant size 1 moving out in front for multiple reasons. Introductions of multiple characters, plus wolverines 2nd full appearance...white cover, stunning cover art, square bound, and even going by census numbes the book is around 3500 copies less than Hulk 181.... Which camp do you belong to, and what is your thought process...regarding which book moving forward might be the best decision as an investment? |
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 Masculinity takes a holiday.
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Darkseid_of_town Depends on the wrap. Seriously, a worthy debate I think. My gut would be that GS X-men 1 is the safer investment when considering both upside and possible downside. 1) Much lower starting price 2) Multiple character introductions intentionally created with multi-national appeal. 3) An industry changing book 4) Wolverine has been played out in just about every conceivable viable way, could the character popularity possibly get bigger than he has been in the last 10 years? |
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Darkseid_of_town Jimmy Olsen 134 has 281 copies graded 9.0 or above. Forever People 1 has 645 copies graded 9.0 or above. Given the difference in value, one would assume the opposite if print runs were the same. Most likely Forever People 1 was printed and/or preserved at about a 5 to 1 ratio of Jimmy Olsen 134. Hulk 180 and 181 were presumably printed and initially preserved at 1 to 1 ratios. |
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 I had no way of knowing that 9.8 graded copies signed by Adam Hughes weren't what you were looking for.
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drchaos private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I would say neither. If you bought either book three or four years ago you did very well. If I were targeting either book I would give it some time to cool off. |
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Towmater private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Neither. Buy an X-Men 94 and move on to buy other key silver age book with the money left in your pocket. | ||
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Steverogers11 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Hulk 181 was always a big. Ok before all the movies. Giant size is a cool book now doubt. But I’d go 181 all day. And 180 is something people bring up because they have one and can’t afford a 181. Bet they would trade there 1st app in a hurry for a cameo copy | ||
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Steverogers11 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| But hell I’d take a GSX and 181 | ||
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 I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Hulk 181 all the way. Wolverine is arguably the most popular marvel character 2nd to maybe Spidey. You can't discount the movie influence on books and now that the X-Men are back at Marvel this will provide a quantum leap in value. Assuming we get a more comic accurate, in costume and as much or more loved actor than Hugh Jackman. This will also have a positive influence on GSX1 as well but the popularity of 181 has been so consistent for so long, one can't lose. | ||
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Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
| For me the answer has been and always will be Giant size 1 for many reasons....white cover, square bound, so more of a challenge to find in higher grades. Was never a wolverine fan and felt the introduction story was a hot mess full of plot holes....have owned perhaps three copies of both books and finally kept the Giant size, but just never felt the need for the 181.... Today you can check cgc census figures and the numbers suggest that there are around 3500 more copies of 181 than giant size 1...that might be because everyone has sent every ragged and torn copy they could lay hands on for 181 whereas Giant size has only hit its stride the last twelve months. While its true that Marvel now has the rights to the x men and so forth, there are no solid guaranatees they will even include wolverine...and it might be smart not to. Sure the fanboy base would scream, tear their clothes and rain ashes for days in mourning over the idea, but the general public, that do not live and breathe comic books are somewhat burnt out on the character. Jackman set the bar pretty high for the next wolverine...it might pay dividends to let it rest awhile , and slowly ease the character back into the cinematic. Flip side , is Giant size 1, with its introductions for storm, colossus, nightcrawler, thunderbird, and even Iliyana Rasputin who may well yet be a character to watch if the New Mutatants is as good as recent articles have suggested it is, with the final reshoots close to done or finished. That's a lot of introductions, and we have wolverines 2nd full appearance in the book too, just in case they do decide to revisit the character. When you pull up Gpa on these books they tell a pretty clear story.....181 is dropping, likely adjusting downward from all the hype and glitter. In every grade from 5.0 up, at each gradient of the scale...5.0. 5.5 6.0 all the way up to 9.6 the book is dropping..at 9.6 the comic shows movement upward, likely due to a random sale, while at 9.8 it is again dropping. Giant size shows mixed results with some grades moving up and some down, just as you might expect in a comic trading briskly . If 181 keeps dropping, who knows, it might be a good time to get one cheaper and wait to see if Disney and Marvel use the character and drive the prices higher again. Flip side we already know the new mutants has Iliyana included, and any x men movie will likely include some of the characters introduced in the book. For me its an even tougher choice...if I chose to buy a copy of 180,181, and 182 again, I could finish my hulk run with the addition of four other minor books....or I could buy a duplicayte giant size, let the price reach a point and flip it for that 181 I need to finish my run. |
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Steverogers11 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Don’t dont think gsx will ever be more popular as 181. 181 has one of the most popular characters of all time. GSX is a great book don’t get me wrong but is a 2nd app of wolverine and 1st of some other good but not great all time characters. And there are so many graded 181 and there needs to be because demand is so high. 181 is down in prices but that happens this time of year to most key books. Again I like both books but decision is easy for me | ||
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I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| both choices are correct but like @Steverogers11 said, decision is easy for me as well. | ||
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 If the viagra is working you should be well over a 9.8.
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xkonk private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I would personally say 181. At a given high grade, 181 is more rare by proportion (24% of graded Hulk 181s are 9.0 or higher while 27% of GSX are 9.0 or higher). There are more graded 181s, so it's easier to find one in general, but a 9.0 is a "better" 181 than a 9.0 GSX. 181 is also the more important book. GSX has more first appearances but Wolverine is ridiculously more popular than Colossus, Nightcrawler, Storm, or Thunderbird. Both have a lot going for them, like classic covers that have been redone many times. But unless there's a massive shift in opinion where Wolverine falls off and the others pick up, 181 will always be the more important book. It's honestly hard for me to think of the conditions where the other X-Men would increase that much. On the 'flame war' side, the 180/181 debate is silly. Yes, Wolverine appears in one panel of 180. But he's through a big chunk of 181, actually doing stuff, and is arguably the focus of the cover. The 181 cover on the whole is also better. I could see some other arguments shifting over time, like first Gambit, but Wolverine is not one I see changing. |
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 I bought a meat grinder on amazon for $60 and it's changed my life.
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kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user | |
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Steverogers11 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by kaptainmykeno argument there bro |
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Gamecube2482 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I would say 181 based on the fact that Spidey and Wolverine are marvels most popular characters. They will always do stuff with those 2 characters. I think alot of kids growing up start to like Wolverine and then when they get into collecting that becomes a grail for them. Also I think with Wolverine he will always remain a leader/main character in the X books. Both books I think are awesome to have. I still want a GSX #1. I just cant believe that Wolverine and 181 has gotten so popular | ||
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 I live in RI and Rhode Islanders eat chili with beans.
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esaravo private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by GAC Just wondering how the general public (which by far outnumbers us comic enthusiasts), who has accepted Hugh Jackman as THE Wolverine, would feel about a short, hairy, muscle-bound guy depicting Wolverine in a movie. Would you pay to see a buffed up Seth Green or Daniel Radcliffe in the role? (Seriously though, I think James Caan's son, Scott Caan, could pull it off.) Like @Darkseid_of_town said, maybe let the character rest for at least a little while. Why not pick up where Logan left off (loved that movie) and showcase an older X-23 in a big budget film? |
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I bought a meat grinder on amazon for $60 and it's changed my life.
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kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user | |
| with your Seth Green or Daniel Radcliffe comment i cannot take you seriously right now | ||
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Towmater private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Maybe the answer is.... whichever one that the flippers feel they can make the most money off by selling it on eBay at any given moment. If one gets too high in price they jump to the other one and vice versa attempting to keep the comic price bubble inflated. I'm sorry I shouldn't have typed "flippers". I should have written serious comic sellers... cough, cough.  Quote: Originally Posted by kaptainmyke Well, Scott Cain and Daniel Radcliffe are about Wolverine's height. Scott is 2 inches taller and Daniel 1 inch taller than Wolverine is in the comics. |
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Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
| The one observation I can make here is that the high pedestal and central role so many are assigning to wolverine just isn't held by the general public. People who dont collect comics and just go out to see movies for entertainment in general simply do not hold he same fascination with the character others do. Many moviegoers are just worn out with this character and feel it was over-used. They just spent 20 years give or take of seeing wolverine movies...while its hard to imagine marvel moving ahead with an x property without some take on the character, who foresaw the lineup used for guardians of the galaxy by example? Thanos is a very key villian yes...would people line up next year to see yet ANOTHER new movie about him? I somewhat doubt it, no matter how important the comic collecting industry might see his role, people are ready for something new. People want something new for their dollar...either an entirely new and different take for the characters, or new characters altogether. It may happen and may not, but count on anything called wolverine in any new movie to be entirely a world different than what has come before. I think if time teaches people in this hobby anything, that things are cyclical...back in the eighties the movies were DC...superman, batman, flash as a tv series in the early nineties etc. Peoples favorite things shift, and as their tastes evolve and mature, the things they find important or relevant shift with it. |
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Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by xkonk A few observations to be made for these comments....years went by where giant size wasn't held up as being that important, which led to only the higher grade copies being submitted...who bothers to grade lower grade copies of secondary keys? it just isn't worth it for those selling a collection or flipping...while in the meantime every copy of 181 possible was sent in. As giant size reaches its rightful role as a legitimate key its only natural more copies on lower grades as well as higher ones will emerge and make this point somewhat moot...You can do this math with any book that wasn't that central until recently ...the copies in the census will mostly be higher grade until the price begins to move upward and make it worthwhile to grade the lower ones. In five years it should prove interesting to compare the scarcity of higher grade giant size to 181's given that white cover and the square bound spine for GSX1....another aspect this argument misses is Giant size has no marvel stamp to cut or trim, so the many copies of 181 that might score higher except someone trimmed the stamp.... While I agree the argument about wolverines first appearance and the importance of 181 vs 180 might be ….questionable, take a minute to check the hobby itself closely before making the case... Darkseid appears in one panel of Jimmy Olsen 134 at the final page of the book, but for price and demand its the big one garnering the heat compared to the much more common Forever people 1, with his first full appearance...and all of that is nevermind to his second appearance, a cameo in olsen 135 as well.....using the wolverine logic there should be a massive drop in demand and price for the olsen book while forever people 1 should be moving upward accordingly.....the hobby is fickle in this matter.If you want to argue where the first cover as check new gods 2...which gets almost no credit regarding darkseid. As stated Gambit is another example where facts dont seem to matter much to collectors.... There are dozens of examples of this at work.....its a fair question, if you establish the criteria for a first appearance shouldn't that be fairly consistent for them? Dont even get started on the mess known as baby Nathan vs the first appearance of cable...or the first domino ….etc. |
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Logan510 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| For investment sake and personal sake, I hope Disney doesn't drop the ball with any future X-Men movies. | ||
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 I've spent years perfecting my brand of assholery.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
| 181 for investment, but GSX is my favorite. I have a GSX but no Hulk 181. | ||
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NoNoNoNoNoYes private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Darkseid_of_town Which years was this? |
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Towmater private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Logan510 Maybe Disney will stop doing comic book movies in the direction they are headed after the Eternals comes out? I can't figure out why they are betting the farm on a group of heroes that could never keep its own series in print each time it has been given one. |
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Logan510 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Towmater My best guess is that after the success of Guardians of the Galaxy that they feel they can turn anything to gold. If you look at the next wave of movies, isn't it mostly B listers...at least comic book wise? It will be interesting to see if Black Panther, Black Widow, Shang-Chi and the Eternals can carry the ball. |
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moodswing private msg quote post Address this user | |
| GSX has more room to grow but I will say there will be another big spike in 181 when Wolverine debuts. Wolverine is still super popular, arguably the second only to spider-man. He is the main reason why I collect comics. GSX still has a ton of 1st appearances though. I think Storm will blow up because I see Disney making her a prominent character. GSX also has the first Illyana and Krakoa. Not sure how much of an investment they both are though if you are buying now at fmv. Probably too late to make a lot of money. | ||
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 I'll probably wake up constipated.
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Pre_Coder private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I'll take an IH-181 with a nice cover wrap anytime. | ||
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BrianGreensnips private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I have a nice 8.5 GSX #1 but I still need to join the 181 club. If the right opportunity comes along it might happen. But I would rather get my Daredevil #1 first. | ||
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 Please continue to ignore anything I post.
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southerncross private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Hulk 181 Fifty years time say x-men and that could mean 30 plus characters Say wolverine and there is just one |
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Masculinity takes a holiday.
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I'm sticking with my initial belief that GS X-men #1 will be the better investment, at least for the next 2-3 years. I used the GoCollect Modeler to look at prices, comparing last 6 months prices vs last 2 years prices for both books in 8.5 and 9.0. GS X-men #1 is up about 25% in both grades while Hulk 181 is down about 4% in both grades. I expect this trend will continue for a while. I'm guessing that Hulk 181 currently has the highest price to (slabbed) supply ratio of any book in existence? At some point books reach a level that really limits the number of potential buyers. I said that backwards. Should have said Hulk 181 probably has the highest slabbed supply of any book in it's price category. Meaning that it has achieved prices that only go to books in much shorter supply. |
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