Given Grade Question | CBCS Comics

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkseid_of_town
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jabberwookie
@00slim @moodswing

Thanks to both of you.

I guess what had me curious is that there are so many variables. Different graders, grader could be tired and miss something, etc...

But to Slim's point, I'd buy the book before the grade, anyway.

Thanks for the answers, and happy New Year!
And this is precisely why grading is subjective....a grader fighting with his wife, or tired, perhaps disgruntled with his pay grade.....and that 9.8 drops to a 9.4......also some graders use the method where they begin with a perfect score and knock down for the flaws, vs others who grade more of a holistic method appraising the good and bad. Is a 2 inch tear more serious than a water stain...is a hole at the top of the last page more offensive than a wrap sliding off the lower staple...is that little date pen written in the corner of the front cover more intrusive than the one inch tall date written on the back cover in ink? subjective.....how each person grades and views the comic. Buy the comic as YOU see it..not how you are told to see it.....

Well, and that kind of gets me to my larger point, which is are we all, more or less, giving these grades some legitimacy, even knowing that there's so many factors involved?

For the most part we accept the given grade, but unless we see a major flaw, we don't question them. That's what I was clarifying.

But, to your earlier point, I buy what I like and can afford in a budget. I'll be happy with 2.0 GSX, or Silver Age book just because I like to have one.

You guys are playing a different game than I am.

Collector 14.3K	14.3K Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by DrWatson Quote: Originally Posted by Darkseid_of_town I dont think anyone abandoned anything...that grading definitions will evolve and become more useful for buying and selling mainly is the more likely scenario. It isn't just CGC, the entire hobby seems to use much loser standards than Overstreets definitions....exceptions being perhaps MCS? If anything, the entire hobby abandoned overstreet grading the minute we went to slabbing books.I can tell you the grading MCS does isn't in the same game as what Metropolis comics, or Reese's rare comics uses. I refuse to buy raw books from either place due to their ….relaxed grading standards. I have had Jon Warren personally grade some of my books, and I think his standards for grading are far more strict than anything in use in the hobby today... Back in the mid and late eighties, I use to correspond with Warren of Overstreet fame, as well as buy from a private monthly sale he ran. For instance Jon Warren graded my Avengers 1 an average VG-VG+ but Pacific Comics, using Robert Rotor's grading format, graded the same book a F/VF.I believe the book would likely score at 5.0 Jon Warren graded my Hulk 1 a G+/VG whereas Rotor graded it a VG+ ..the comic would likely grade a 3.0-3.5 on a lucky roll Those were his grades he offered some 30 years ago for me...but he seemed far more strict than the current hobby.....and more in line with what MCS uses. Was abandoned too strong of a word? How about saying "have deviated from" instead? Especially with concern regarding what is allowable in the higher grades. call it what you like...I myself and for my own part see it as evolving.....for the lower grades, however I agree with your take on how the 9 plus grades are being done....sloppy
	5 years ago	Post 57 • IP flag post

Collector 3.04K	3.04K moodswing private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 1
	@Darkseid_of_town How can this happen when 3 graders are supposed to grade the book? I can see defects slipping by 1 grader but 3? Something doesn't seem right.
	5 years ago	Post 51 • IP flag post

Collector 5.69K	5.69K Jabberwookie private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by NoNoNoNoNoYes Quote: Originally Posted by moodswing @Jabberwookie It absolutely does. I have been watching several comics that I thought were obviously over graded. Every comic went well below fmv for the grade and some went for lower than the next grade down. I now look at every graded comic closely. I have no confidence in cgc grading. Have you heard of Shaken Comic Syndrome? Are you aware that the man who set up CGC"s grading standards is the President of CBCS? I'm not sure what any of this has to do with my questions? Edit: Never mind. I see you weren't responding to me. I'm still getting used to my new contacts. My bad.
	5 years ago	Post 52 • IP flag post

Collector 5.69K	5.69K Jabberwookie private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by CaptainCanuck . “Buy the book, not the grade” is a popular saying these days, but it doesn't make sense. You cannot perform a proper evaluation of a comic inside the slab. The last person to examine the book outside of the slab was the grader. If you don’t trust their judgement, you will have to remove it from the slab and perform your own analysis. Attempting to grade a book inside the slab is not comprehensive. Here’s another idiom “don’t judge a book by its cover”. Unless I'm mistaken, I think what they mean is buy the book you like, but don't just search for 9.8s. I think that, in general, it's good information, but at times you might want THAT book, and in a legitimate 9.8, so I see where both sides are coming from.
	5 years ago	Post 53 • IP flag post

Collector 5.69K	5.69K Jabberwookie private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 3
	Quote: Originally Posted by Darkseid_of_town Quote: Originally Posted by Jabberwookie @00slim @moodswing Thanks to both of you. I guess what had me curious is that there are so many variables. Different graders, grader could be tired and miss something, etc... But to Slim's point, I'd buy the book before the grade, anyway. Thanks for the answers, and happy New Year! And this is precisely why grading is subjective....a grader fighting with his wife, or tired, perhaps disgruntled with his pay grade.....and that 9.8 drops to a 9.4......also some graders use the method where they begin with a perfect score and knock down for the flaws, vs others who grade more of a holistic method appraising the good and bad. Is a 2 inch tear more serious than a water stain...is a hole at the top of the last page more offensive than a wrap sliding off the lower staple...is that little date pen written in the corner of the front cover more intrusive than the one inch tall date written on the back cover in ink? subjective.....how each person grades and views the comic. Buy the comic as YOU see it..not how you are told to see it..... Well, and that kind of gets me to my larger point, which is are we all, more or less, giving these grades some legitimacy, even knowing that there's so many factors involved? For the most part we accept the given grade, but unless we see a major flaw, we don't question them. That's what I was clarifying. But, to your earlier point, I buy what I like and can afford in a budget. I'll be happy with 2.0 GSX, or Silver Age book just because I like to have one. You guys are playing a different game than I am.
	5 years ago	Post 54 • IP flag post

Captain Corrector 6.12K	6.12K CaptainCanuck private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	@Jabberwookie Quote: Originally Posted by Jabberwookie Unless I'm mistaken, I think what they mean is buy the book you like, but don't just search for 9.8s. I think that, in general, it's good information, but at times you might want THAT book, and in a legitimate 9.8, so I see where both sides are coming from. It means buy the book according to what’s inside the slab, not the grade you see on top.
	5 years ago	Post 56 • IP flag post

I've spent years perfecting my brand of assholery. 56.43K	56.43K DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by Darkseid_of_town I dont think anyone abandoned anything...that grading definitions will evolve and become more useful for buying and selling mainly is the more likely scenario. It isn't just CGC, the entire hobby seems to use much loser standards than Overstreets definitions....exceptions being perhaps MCS? If anything, the entire hobby abandoned overstreet grading the minute we went to slabbing books.I can tell you the grading MCS does isn't in the same game as what Metropolis comics, or Reese's rare comics uses. I refuse to buy raw books from either place due to their ….relaxed grading standards. I have had Jon Warren personally grade some of my books, and I think his standards for grading are far more strict than anything in use in the hobby today... Back in the mid and late eighties, I use to correspond with Warren of Overstreet fame, as well as buy from a private monthly sale he ran. For instance Jon Warren graded my Avengers 1 an average VG-VG+ but Pacific Comics, using Robert Rotor's grading format, graded the same book a F/VF.I believe the book would likely score at 5.0 Jon Warren graded my Hulk 1 a G+/VG whereas Rotor graded it a VG+ ..the comic would likely grade a 3.0-3.5 on a lucky roll Those were his grades he offered some 30 years ago for me...but he seemed far more strict than the current hobby.....and more in line with what MCS uses. Was abandoned too strong of a word? How about saying "have deviated from" instead? Especially with concern regarding what is allowable in the higher grades.
	5 years ago	Post 55 • IP flag post

Masculinity takes a holiday. 37.28K	37.28K EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 1
	Quote: Originally Posted by Darkseid_of_town call it what you like...I myself and for my own part see it as evolving.....for the lower grades, however I agree with your take on how the 9 plus grades are being done....sloppy I think at some point CGC realized that their grading standards determine the value of the entire industries inventory of back issues. What might be a $1 billion dollar inventory can become $1.2 billion with slightly looser standards, or $0.8 Billion with slightly tighter standards. Not necessarily a planned decision, but over time with enough lobbying from their dealer-partners, it's easy to see how standards could slip a bit...to the benefit of all the key players. A dealer with a $1 million inventory is gifted $200,000 by a slight change in grading standards. Anyone have any estimates how many books are being slabbed each year? Pretty remarkable how prevalent slabbed books are today at shows.
	5 years ago	Post 58 • IP flag post

I'm a #2. 11.54K	11.54K BigRedOne1944 private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by Darkseid_of_town Quote: Originally Posted by BigRedOne1944 Quote: Originally Posted by Darkseid_of_town Maybe they were at 9.6 then said ..but wow that wrap Well.. we most certainly no the opposite wouldn't be a possability. but then Overstreet grading definitions do not really allow for a mis-wrap above 9.0 so that point would be both facetious and unlikely Overstreet may make the "Rules" for you, but it doesn't dictate my grading standards or the book parameters I set for the type of books I wish to collect. If your happy with off centered books that's fine, but I am NOT, and I most certainly don't have to justify that to you.
	5 years ago	Post 59 • IP flag post

Collector 23	23 Forbush private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Question about a grade from CBCS....I received a book back graded with a check mark. I understand this is supposed to mean it presents outwardly better than grade. But checking the notes, there are no interior defects listed. So I don't understand why the check mark instead of just a higher grade.
	5 years ago	Post 61 • IP flag post

Collector 17.98K	17.98K 00slim private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by Forbush Question about a grade from CBCS....I received a book back graded with a check mark. I understand this is supposed to mean it presents outwardly better than grade. But checking the notes, there are no interior defects listed. So I don't understand why the check mark instead of just a higher grade. The flaw could be on the exterior, but hard to see. So, it doesn’t qualify for a higher grade, it simply looks better than you’d expect for the grade.
	5 years ago	Post 62 • IP flag post

Given Grade Question10860