Given Grade Question10860
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Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
Maybe they were at 9.6 then said ..but wow that wrap |
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| Post 26 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
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Drogio private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Grading is subjective, so yes if that’s the ONLY flaw...I don’t know if it’s a crease or very slight blunting. Ives seem books with two spine ticks get 9.8s. I’d say this is not as bad as that. |
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| Post 27 • IP flag post | ||
 I'm a #2.
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BigRedOne1944 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Darkseid_of_town Well.. we most certainly no the opposite wouldn't be a possability. |
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| Post 28 • IP flag post | ||
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Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by BigRedOne1944but then Overstreet grading definitions do not really allow for a mis-wrap above 9.0 so that point would be both facetious and unlikely |
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| Post 29 • IP flag post | ||
 I've spent years perfecting my brand of assholery.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
| The cgc abandoned the Overstreet Grading Guide years ago. | ||
| Post 30 • IP flag post | ||
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Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I dont think anyone abandoned anything...that grading definitions will evolve and become more useful for buying and selling mainly is the more likely scenario. It isn't just CGC, the entire hobby seems to use much loser standards than Overstreets definitions....exceptions being perhaps MCS? If anything, the entire hobby abandoned overstreet grading the minute we went to slabbing books.I can tell you the grading MCS does isn't in the same game as what Metropolis comics, or Reese's rare comics uses. I refuse to buy raw books from either place due to their ….relaxed grading standards. I have had Jon Warren personally grade some of my books, and I think his standards for grading are far more strict than anything in use in the hobby today... Back in the mid and late eighties, I use to correspond with Warren of Overstreet fame, as well as buy from a private monthly sale he ran. For instance Jon Warren graded my Avengers 1 an average VG-VG+ but Pacific Comics, using Robert Rotor's grading format, graded the same book a F/VF.I believe the book would likely score at 5.0 Jon Warren graded my Hulk 1 a G+/VG whereas Rotor graded it a VG+ ..the comic would likely grade a 3.0-3.5 on a lucky roll Those were his grades he offered some 30 years ago for me...but he seemed far more strict than the current hobby.....and more in line with what MCS uses. |
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| Post 31 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
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Jabberwookie private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I hope that this does not hijack the post, but I am curious about something. If it got a 9.8, but you are seeing some wear on the corners, does it matter, as far as sales? I'm thinking that it's graded as 9.8, then the buyers will be paying for that. Would they look at some pictures and offer you less because it's "not a real 9.8?" Now, if this is just for your PC, and you want a totally clean book, I can see that, but I'm thinking most people know the grades are an estimate, and subject to variables like anything else. It might not be a "true 9.8," but we know it's a solid comic in really great shape. If any of that makes sense? |
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| Post 32 • IP flag post | ||
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00slim private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Jabberwookie The saying goes, “buy the book, not the grade”. The experienced collectors will certainly compare 9.8s and snag the one they feel presents best. That said, the flaw here is easy to miss. Most likely, It’ll sell for whatever another 9.8 will sell for. There are are many that simply buy the grade. “Hey, it’s a 9.8, that’s all that matters”. |
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| Post 33 • IP flag post | ||
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moodswing private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Jabberwookie It absolutely does. I have been watching several comics that I thought were obviously over graded. Every comic went well below fmv for the grade and some went for lower than the next grade down. I now look at every graded comic closely. I have no confidence in cgc grading. |
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| Post 34 • IP flag post | ||
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Jabberwookie private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @00slim @moodswing Thanks to both of you. I guess what had me curious is that there are so many variables. Different graders, grader could be tired and miss something, etc... But to Slim's point, I'd buy the book before the grade, anyway. Thanks for the answers, and happy New Year! |
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| Post 35 • IP flag post | ||
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NoNoNoNoNoYes private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by moodswing Have you heard of Shaken Comic Syndrome? Are you aware that the man who set up CGC"s grading standards is the President of CBCS? |
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| Post 36 • IP flag post | ||
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Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
You must be meaning our own Steve Borock...he is an active member here , has a thread called ...Books that cross my desk, and sent me a Christmas present this year in our annual Christmas gift exchange...you will find he is well loved and respected here. Thanks again Steve ! |
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| Post 37 • IP flag post | ||
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Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by 00slimI am with Slim here, he said it best. buy the comic, the holder is an opinion at best, and prone to human error ...it should serve as a guideline |
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| Post 38 • IP flag post | ||
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Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by JabberwookieAnd this is precisely why grading is subjective....a grader fighting with his wife, or tired, perhaps disgruntled with his pay grade.....and that 9.8 drops to a 9.4......also some graders use the method where they begin with a perfect score and knock down for the flaws, vs others who grade more of a holistic method appraising the good and bad. Is a 2 inch tear more serious than a water stain...is a hole at the top of the last page more offensive than a wrap sliding off the lower staple...is that little date pen written in the corner of the front cover more intrusive than the one inch tall date written on the back cover in ink? subjective.....how each person grades and views the comic. Buy the comic as YOU see it..not how you are told to see it..... |
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| Post 39 • IP flag post | ||
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Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by NoNoNoNoNoYes http://the-comic-book-forum.boards.net/thread/1397/cgc-shaken-comic-syndrome-damage?page=1 apparently it IS a thing..who knew |
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| Post 40 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
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cyrano0521 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by NoNoNoNoNoYes Are you aware that since Steve left CGC, their “standards” have changed and gotten WAAAAY looser? Part of that is training program and part is “go faster” but i think a lot has been “don”t be so tough on books.” Makes me not use CGC except for things CBCS cannot yet encapsulate. |
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| Post 41 • IP flag post | ||
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Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Nevermind that the higher a book grades, the more value it should attain and therefore the more they can charge for all aspects of the services provided....its a bit of a conflict of interest | ||
| Post 42 • IP flag post | ||
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I've spent years perfecting my brand of assholery.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by NoNoNoNoNoYes Who are you? Stu? I know you're Stu. |
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| Post 43 • IP flag post | ||
 Captain Corrector
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CaptainCanuck private msg quote post Address this user | |
| . “Buy the book, not the grade” is a popular saying these days, but it doesn't make sense. You cannot perform a proper evaluation of a comic inside the slab. The last person to examine the book outside of the slab was the grader. If you don’t trust their judgement, you will have to remove it from the slab and perform your own analysis. Attempting to grade a book inside the slab is not comprehensive. Here’s another idiom “don’t judge a book by its cover”. |
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| Post 44 • IP flag post | ||
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Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I think you can take the graders opinion, graders notes, and also examine and perform your best grading and using the results of three come to a rather well considered opinion of the condition of the comic...but yes, that is an issue, not being able to check inside the comic itself. I always wonder and try to ask if a book has been pressed or cleaned when I buy it, but that information is seldom known or shared |
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| Post 45 • IP flag post | ||
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00slim private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by CaptainCanuck But, it’s just a principle. Compare grader’s notes, look the book over the best you can. Compare and contrast with other examples. It may be more accurate to say, “do your homework”. |
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| Post 46 • IP flag post | ||
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Captain Corrector
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CaptainCanuck private msg quote post Address this user | |
| . Here’s the way I view it. Look at the physical book, the grade and the graders notes as “evidence and testimony”. If you don’t trust the grader’s grade, then don’t trust the grader’s notes either. Selectively accepting or refusing just the “evidence and testimony” that supports your own opinion, only serves to corroborate your own grade using some “untrusted” sources. This doesn’t make your own assessment superior to that of the original grader. Your own assessment should be independent of the original untrusted “evidence and testimony”. This is why you need to evaluate the unslabbed book in order to “buy the book, not the grade”. |
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| Post 47 • IP flag post | ||
 I'm waiting.... (tapping fingers).Splotches is gettin old! |
Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I love slabbing books, but don't purchase slabbed books. I only sell them. I refuse to pay exponential amounts of money for a book that I have to grade again even after it's been slabbed/graded. Let someone else do the exponential expenditure for a difference in opinion; or worse, an error. |
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| Post 48 • IP flag post | ||
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Captain Corrector
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CaptainCanuck private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Nuffsaid111 Happy Birthday |
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| Post 49 • IP flag post | ||
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I'm waiting.... (tapping fingers). Splotches is gettin old! |
Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by CaptainCanuck Thank you!.. although somehow it's actually in June. Just fixed the profile |
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| Post 50 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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moodswing private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Darkseid_of_town How can this happen when 3 graders are supposed to grade the book? I can see defects slipping by 1 grader but 3? Something doesn't seem right. |
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| Post 51 • IP flag post | ||
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Jabberwookie private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by NoNoNoNoNoYes I'm not sure what any of this has to do with my questions? Edit: Never mind. I see you weren't responding to me. I'm still getting used to my new contacts. My bad. |
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| Post 52 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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Jabberwookie private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by CaptainCanuck Unless I'm mistaken, I think what they mean is buy the book you like, but don't just search for 9.8s. I think that, in general, it's good information, but at times you might want THAT book, and in a legitimate 9.8, so I see where both sides are coming from. |
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| Post 53 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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Jabberwookie private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Darkseid_of_town Well, and that kind of gets me to my larger point, which is are we all, more or less, giving these grades some legitimacy, even knowing that there's so many factors involved? For the most part we accept the given grade, but unless we see a major flaw, we don't question them. That's what I was clarifying. But, to your earlier point, I buy what I like and can afford in a budget. I'll be happy with 2.0 GSX, or Silver Age book just because I like to have one. You guys are playing a different game than I am. |
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| Post 54 • IP flag post | ||
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I've spent years perfecting my brand of assholery.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Darkseid_of_town Was abandoned too strong of a word? How about saying "have deviated from" instead? Especially with concern regarding what is allowable in the higher grades. |
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| Post 55 • IP flag post | ||
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