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Comics Restoration and ConservationComics Silver AgeGrading Help Needed

Fantastic Four #1 Glue Detected: Qualified Green, Blue or Unqualified?10789

Collector RLR private msg quote post Address this user
I have a Fantastic Four #1 in VG condition which I purchased from Metropolis 10 years ago. They noted and we found a tiny amount of what may be glue visible under UV on the inside of the spine. The glue neither seems to repair any defect nor mars the appearance of the comic. My local comic dealer says it would be graded as Restored, but it strikes me as the very definition of Conserved at worst, warranting a Qualified Green or Qualified Blue label. Thoughts? And how much would this impact its value?
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Moderator Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user
@RLR CBCS does not do "qualified" grades, and yes, a small touch of glue would probably get a restored designation and it would adversely effect the value of the comic.
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Collector TimBildhauser private msg quote post Address this user
It depends on whether or not the glue is serving a purpose. If it's reinforcing the spine, sealing a spine split, etc. it would be considered conservation. If it's just a small spot of glue on the spine that's not actually doing anything it be factored into the grade essentially the same way a stain would be and notated as "small amount of glue on cover". Regardless, it would be a blue label with the appropriate notes.
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Collector RLR private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimBildhauser
It depends on whether or not the glue is serving a purpose. If it's reinforcing the spine, sealing a spine split, etc. it would be considered conservation. If it's just a small spot of glue on the spine that's not actually doing anything it be factored into the grade essentially the same way a stain would be and notated as "small amount of glue on cover". Regardless, it would be a blue label with the appropriate notes.


The glue doesn’t seem to repairing any defect. It may have been used to conserve the comic. I think that Metropolis based the condition on it being 2 small spots of glue not really serving any restorative purpose. The placement of the first spot on the inside spine does indicate to me that it was probably done to conserve the comic.
Thanks for the input.
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Collector Batman66 private msg quote post Address this user
@TimBildhauser

im thinking of sending my af15 in. I think a .5 is too strict of a grade. Looks to me a 1.0. It's complete with nothing missing, the cover is completely split reattached with tape. If I sent this to cbcs, would it come back conserved because of the tape?
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Collector cyrano0521 private msg quote post Address this user
This is where i disagree with our TPGs; without that tape, cover cannot be attached, so it should be a restored 1.0.
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Collector TimBildhauser private msg quote post Address this user
@Batman66 Tape isn't restoration, it's always considered as a defect and factored into the grade. With as much as there is going on with that book I doubt you'd see a grade bump even if it's complete.
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Collector NoNoNoNoNoYes private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Batman66
@TimBildhauser

im thinking of sending my af15 in. I think a .5 is too strict of a grade. Looks to me a 1.0. It's complete with nothing missing, the cover is completely split reattached with tape. If I sent this to cbcs, would it come back conserved because of the tape?


No way that's a 1.0.
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Collector Siggy private msg quote post Address this user
Agreed, I think the cover would have to be partially attached for this to be a 1.0
Mine also is completely split and detached, but has no tape anywhere. I wouldn't expect the grade to change if I taped the 2 halves together
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Collector TimBildhauser private msg quote post Address this user
@NoNoNoNoNoYes @Siggy With the cover detached and completely split you'd be in the 1.0 range. Addd to that the visible amount of tape on the cover + the label states that there's tape on the interior of the cover as well as the interior of the book. That's a LOT of tape.

If the tape was removed from the equation I think 1.0 is where it would land. However, adding the tape (and the staining that it's caused) and you still have to downgrade for it from the 1.0 mark. With significant enough damage a book can still be low enough grade to be a .5 (which doesn't necessarily mean it's incomplete). It doesn't get a pass because it's an AF 15 or the fact that the difference in value between .5 & 1.0 is probably a couple thousand dollars. That has zero to do with the actual grade. Let's be honest... apply the exact same defects to any non-key book and in this condition you'd probably just toss it in the trash.

If you brought this book the the CBCS booth at a convention and were considering submitting it hoping for a bump to 1.0 I would completely advise against it. You're 100% welcome to your opinion on what a book like that should grade out but as someone who's graded professionally and my experience with where the bar is set on a book like this I stand by my assessment.
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TRA LA LA esaravo private msg quote post Address this user
@TimBildhauser - I have seen a comic in a CBCS slab with the label stating “Cover & centerfold detached.” and it was given a grade of 3.0. Now that comic (a SA ASM) had no tape on the cover or the interior. Is that the highest grade a comic with a detached cover can hope to achieve?
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Collector Batman66 private msg quote post Address this user


just because it doesn't say tape on cover, looks like tape on cover to me. I've seen more examples of spine completely spilt with tape getting 1.0, I've seen many 1.0 way worse than mine. Just think the .5 category should be reserved for the incomplete books.
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Collector TimBildhauser private msg quote post Address this user
@esaravo The absolute highest grade you'll see on a book with a detached cover is 4.0

@Batman66 The tape was removed from that copy, here's the grading notes on it:

Notes:
lot of wear, tears, pieces missing & creases
Cover detached & completely split.
many tape stains on interior cover & 1st wrap

As far as .5 being reserved for incomplete copies only... again, you're entitled to that opinion but both CBCS and CGC see it differently.
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Collector Batman66 private msg quote post Address this user


@TimBildhauser so its not the damages caused by the tape, removing the tape would give it a better grade? Not try to argue and I'll leave you alone. I'm sure you have better things to do
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Collector NoNoNoNoNoYes private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Batman66
just because it doesn't say tape on cover, looks like tape on cover to me. I've seen more examples of spine completely spilt with tape getting 1.0, I've seen many 1.0 way worse than mine.

Many? Way worse? You'll have to show me some before I believe it.
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Collector TimBildhauser private msg quote post Address this user
@Batman66 With the tape removed it would possibly give it a chance to reach 1.0 but I definitely wouldn't recommend removing yourself unless you have experience with it. The age & type of tape can make it very tricky to do without causing more damage. Again, based on what they notated on the label there's tape on the cover, interior cover and the pages so it could prove to be a considerably risky procedure.

If you pursue that option be prepared for the potential of further damage to the book and the fact that it may or may not get you the bump to 1.0 that you're looking for.
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Collector Batman66 private msg quote post Address this user
Don't worry guys, it's not leaving this slab, happy to at least own a copy.
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Moderator Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Batman66
Don't worry guys, it's not leaving this slab, happy to at least own a copy.


Honestly, I'm glad to read that! I was getting nervous for you! If I tried something like removing tape from a .5 AF15, with my luck, it'd come back a .3! LOL
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Collector Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user
Kind of went where I initially had thought it would with that AF 15 sadly Batman....the issue I see is that tape was put there to keep things together at some point in time and even if professionally removed, then how much of the cover falls to pieces or becomes unstable? I have similar issues with a few books and would be scared to mess with them for same reasons, although they are keys like this
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Collector Batman66 private msg quote post Address this user
@Jesse_O well I guess if I want a higher grade then I should have just sent it to pgx,lol
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