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CBCS GradedComics Restoration and ConservationComics Silver Age

I finally got burnt - ASM #17 trim/restore1044

Collector Darkga private msg quote post Address this user
Ugh! It was bound to happen with all the raws I've been buying recently. I thought I got a fair deal on an Amazing Spider-Man #17, which was expected to grade at least an 8.0. Well it came back a 7.5 restored and trimmed. Talk about a double whammy! I sent the seller an email requesting a refund, but I'm not holding my breath. Why are people so dishonest? Oh I forgot, money!

Grader notes:
top & bottom edge trimmed
color touch spots to spine, crease near spine & bottom right corner, some bleeds
spine stress & long crease near spine does not break color
4" crease left bottom back cover does not break color





Post 1 IP   flag post
Collector AndyRexia private msg quote post Address this user
Just playing Devil's advocate, but is it possible the seller wasn't aware?
Post 2 IP   flag post
Collector Darkga private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyRexia
Just playing Devil's advocate, but is it possible the seller wasn't aware?


Possibly, but they are a business not an individual. The mistake I made was not measuring the height when I got the book. On second look it is the same height as a Modern age book even though is a Silver age comic. I'll have my ruler out every time from now on. As for the color touch, I don't see it, but maybe I need to put it under a UV light.
Post 3 IP   flag post
Collector AndyRexia private msg quote post Address this user
I'm sorry to hear it man. If the seller doesn't reply do you think you'll sell it?
Post 4 IP   flag post
Collector Darkga private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyRexia
I'm sorry to hear it man. If the seller doesn't reply do you think you'll sell it?


Most likely I will to at least recoup my losses. I'll keep you posted.
Post 5 IP   flag post
Collector FUEGOMUSIC private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkga
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyRexia
Just playing Devil's advocate, but is it possible the seller wasn't aware?


Possibly, but they are a business not an individual. The mistake I made was not measuring the height when I got the book. On second look it is the same height as a Modern age book even though is a Silver age comic. I'll have my ruler out every time from now on. As for the color touch, I don't see it, but maybe I need to put it under a UV light.

What are the measurements, so we can also be on the look out.
Post 6 IP   flag post
Collector Mr_adam_R private msg quote post Address this user
Sorry man. I have been in your shoes.
Post 7 IP   flag post
Collector DetroitMike private msg quote post Address this user
Chalk it up to education expenses. I've probably missed 4 or 5 over the years. The worst was a Green Lantern 1 silver age. The good definitely far outweigh the bad.
Post 8 IP   flag post
Collector Darkga private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by FUEGOMUSIC
What are the measurements, so we can also be on the look out.


This one was only about 10" tall.
Post 9 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
I think we should all start carrying UV flashlights in our pockets like CSI
Post 10 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user
It's still a beautiful book imo
Post 11 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user
You let me know if you don't want it anymore
Post 12 IP   flag post
Collector poka private msg quote post Address this user
Part of buying raws. This is one of the reasons the seller wouldn't slab before selling
Post 13 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR Studley_Dudley private msg quote post Address this user
I feel you bro. I paid $137 for an X-men #101 from a seller in ebay. Came back 8.5 with color touch. The seller may not have known. She struck me as a jilted wife selling her ex husband's stuff. I made some of my money back when I sold it. I try not to buy too many raw big books online now as a result.
Post 14 IP   flag post
Collector Darkga private msg quote post Address this user
Thanks for your support guys! I have a question about the number grade: is that 7.5 taking into account the restoration or it like a CGC qualified grade? Hypothetically, if it did not have restoration would it have been higher than 7.5? I just wanted to see if my visual grading (sans the restore) was on point.
Post 15 IP   flag post
Collector Darkga private msg quote post Address this user
Here is a clearer picture:

Post 16 IP   flag post
Collector Dick_Pontoon private msg quote post Address this user
Measuring a book is not going to tell you if it was trimmed. Silver age books especially had great variation, even between copies of the same issue.

And to further play devil’s advocate, just because a seller is a business and not an individual does not mean they know how to detect restoration or even grade. Who was the seller?
Post 17 IP   flag post
Collector ThisLand private msg quote post Address this user
@Darkga I believe a restored book is normally graded as it appears (ie - Apparent 7.5) with the qualification that it was restored. I don't think the grade is reduced because it has restoration.

I agree with @Dick_Pontoon that it can be hard to detect some restoration. Graders spot this stuff because they are professionals. Just because someone sells comics doesn't mean they can spot restoration (or even that they can grade adequately). I usually try to give the benefit of the doubt in situations like this. People make mistakes and not everyone is trying to rip us off.
Post 18 IP   flag post
Collector Darkga private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick_Pontoon
Measuring a book is not going to tell you if it was trimmed. Silver age books especially had great variation, even between copies of the same issue.

And to further play devil’s advocate, just because a seller is a business and not an individual does not mean they know how to detect restoration or even grade. Who was the seller?


Could it be possible that this is not actually trimmed then? Do you think it's worth getting a second opinion?

As for the "devil's advocate" comment, I see your point. I myself did not spot anything fishy with the book, so maybe they didn't either. The seller is no one big name, but I don't want to drag their name into the mud until I know for sure I was ripped off.
Post 19 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR conditionfreak private msg quote post Address this user
I have had two books come back restored/trimmed. And both were grails for me. How disappointing.

Amazing Fantasy #15, and Kid Colt #1. I sold both on Ebay. The AF 15 was slabbed and stated trimmed. I actually did alright on that one. Paid #1200 and sold years later for $2525. The Kid Colt was raw, but I disclosed the restoration. I think I had paid around $400 and sold it for something like $125.

I am still on the hunt for the right copies of these two books, within my range of financial ability.

To be fair, I think that most people who sell trimmed books, and sometimes restored books. Don't know that is what they have. I had the AF #15 for ten years and didn't know it was trimmed on the right and top.
Post 20 IP   flag post
Collector Iceman399 private msg quote post Address this user
As mentioned trimming is difficult for the average collector let alone a grading company to detect 100%. Avengers 1 with CGC anyone??? Measuring a book is pointless. There are key things to look for such as distributor ink missing, sharper edges etc.

Did you open the book at all? Based on your notes you should have noted the bleed through of the CT if you did. If not it's always a good practice when buying expensive raw books to check them over (you could have seen the CT and sent it back right away and not wasted grading fees)

I agree you should ask for your money back and return the book to them. Its a relatively inexpensive lesson to learn about buying $ books that are raw and not being knowledgeable yourself to detect CT.

Let us know how the return/refund goes.
Post 21 IP   flag post
Collector ComicLife private msg quote post Address this user
It may not be worth measuring, but we should always look for that natural "triangle" formation of the pages (stapled from center and then folded)between front and back covers on the right.

Whenever the pages are "flat," and flush with the covers' edges, it's been trimmed. If you're not looking for it, it can be easy to miss. But there's no "maybe" about it, if it's there.
Post 22 IP   flag post
Collector Darkga private msg quote post Address this user
UPDATE: After a little teeth pulling, I was able to get a full refund on the comic. I'm still taking over a $100 loss though (I paid for rapid on the grading), but it's still less than I have would have taken trying to sell this restored book. I've learned an expensive lesson though and will be more cautious with raws in the future.
Post 23 IP   flag post
Collector FUEGOMUSIC private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkga
UPDATE: After a little teeth pulling, I was able to get a full refund on the comic. I'm still taking over a $100 loss though (I paid for rapid on the grading), but it's still less than I have would have taken trying to sell this restored book. I've learned an expensive lesson though and will be more cautious with raws in the future.


Good for you. Hope you sent it back cracked from the case.
Post 24 IP   flag post
Collector Darkga private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by FUEGOMUSIC
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkga
UPDATE: After a little teeth pulling, I was able to get a full refund on the comic. I'm still taking over a $100 loss though (I paid for rapid on the grading), but it's still less than I have would have taken trying to sell this restored book. I've learned an expensive lesson though and will be more cautious with raws in the future.


Good for you. Hope you sent it back cracked from the case.


I was thinking of doing that, but I wanted the proof of the restore to be there. Maybe this will prevent them from selling it to an unsuspecting customer unless they crack it themselves.
Post 25 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
I would leave it slabbed to lessen the chances of the next buyer getting burned. If the seller cracks it, that's on them.
Post 26 IP   flag post
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