Latest on CGC Newton Rings10297
 -Our Odin-Rest in Peace |
Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Ok, I want to start off by saying that I am NOT a fan of newton rings!!! I also am, obviously, biased towards CBCS. Having said that, I believe that competition is good for our hobby and I have nothing personal against CGC. It's like Pepsi vs Coke IMO. I have CGC slabs in my collection. Just because I would never submit to them doesn't mean that I won't buy their product. One of the reasons for my distaste for CGC is how they are treating the whole newton ring problem. They continually ignore the problem and try to present it as an issue that is not problem. But this takes the cake. CGC has released a video on YouTube about newton rings. They are trying to whitewash the whole affair. They are trying to minimize it. They don't give a rat's rear end about the consumers. If you check out the CGC forums, people have stopped submitting because of them. Many are getting newton rings back after sending them in because they had newton rings. People are receiving their comics in larger slabs in hopes to get rid of the rings. Of course, this presents a new problem where there is too much room and the comic can shift in the slab. I'm just amazed at how they are turning a blind eye and ears towards this issue. They just don't care. They are trying to spin a problem that even eBay sellers have had to add a disclaimer about. To me, this just shows their total disregard of the collecting community and its' members. They no longer care about collectors, comic books or their own product. It is absolutely disheartening!! Here is the video: |
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Steverogers11 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Not a fan of newton rings but honestly doesn’t really bother me much as it should I guess. Most of mine I can only see if I tilt a book a certain way | ||
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 Collector
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SpiderTim private msg quote post Address this user | |
| What they say is actually true. They omit more information on the matter but it really doesn't affect the comic which is what slabbing is about. It is the reflection of light going through both plastics but it happens because they have stuck together. It does affect visibility and desirability of the slab. Fortunately I have never had an issue getting a CGC slab back from an ebay buyer. I'd be really pissed if I couldn't see a comic once slabbed because of an oil slick. lol | ||
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 Beaten by boat oars
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Studley_Dudley private msg quote post Address this user | |
| There were some people in a Facebook group who said you can get rid of the rings by sliding a backing board/sturdy paper into the slab to separate the inner well from the outer case. I don't remember if it's a permanent fix or not. Anyways, I told one person that I shouldn't have to slide anything into the slab since it is a known issue and CGC should be working on it. Sometimes, they're there faintly, sometimes they're pretty pronounced, and other times not there at all. It's across the spectrum. My personal feeling is they are in IDGAF mode on the rings. After the way they handled their slab fiasco a few years back, nothing surprises me with them. Besides they have fancy character labels. It bothers me because a bit because if I sell a CGC book, I have to disclaimer it. On the other hand, all my slabs go in boxes, so I don't have to look at them. It's going to be a personal preference for each person though. | ||
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SpiderTim private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Studley_Dudley Yeah the slab fiasco doesn't give you confidence in the company. The issue could be fixed by sliding a paper into the slab, problem is you can no longer slide anything in their slab. That gives additional problems as if the book cannot breath it will create greater problems that can affect the structural integrity of the comic in the long term. |
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dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @SpiderTim To be fair, slabbing IS also about presentation, which is basically what their entire slab change was about, hence their constant use of “superior optics” as a selling point. @Studley_Dudley How are you expected to slide a board or paper into a CGC slab ro separate the inner and outer holders when the outer case is sealed the entire way around? |
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 I hear their hourly rate is outrageous!
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sportshort private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Jesse_O I know most people on this or CGC's forum don't want to hear it but even PGX doesn't have that problem so if PGX & CBCS could avoid this issue how can't CGC. |
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 I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by sportshort This is GREAT question that's apparently shrouded in mystery. CGC must be benefitting in some way (i.e. cost reduction or something). This newton ring issue has been going on for years. Its obviously a customer irritant that they refuse to change that can be easily changed but is not, why? |
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dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @sportshort @GAC There is certainly money involved. To start, it’s important to understand what causes Newton rings to form. Basically, they happen when light has to pass uninterrupted through mediums witg different transparency properties. In the case of slabbed books, that can be the inner well and outer holder. Next, let’s talk about CGC’s current case. When it was first introduced it did away with the inner well altogether so the case was designed to hold the book in place with pressure. This is the key part because although CGC introduced the inner well again in response to the “creep engine” issues, the outer case is still designed to exert pressure on the book inside. This pressure can force air out from between the inner well and outsr holder creating a vacuum and causing the Newton rings. CBCS cases aren’t sealed so when you do get rings you can open the case slightly to break the vacuum and eliminate the rings. CGC cases are sealed entirely so you have fewer options for eliminating rings if you do get them (some people have found success with suction cups). So back to rhe money. As you can see from the above, CGC’s ring issue is a problem inherent in their case’ design. Ask anyone who has been waiting on a CBCS magazine size case and they’ll tell you one of the reasons we don’t have one yet is because having new molds manufactured is incredibly expensive. Add to that any design and engineering costs needed to prototype the new case. CGC clearly doesn’t want to throw away the money they used getting to the current case by having to roll out a new one so soon. Additionally, the new CGC case had a huge PR push including comics sites (some of which tbey partially own/support) drooling profusely over what a “game-changer” it was. Having to change the case so soon to address a flaw would be a huge admission that could shake confidence in the brand, threaten their position ahe “only game in town” in many dealers/collectors’ view, not to mention the calls for free reholders they would get from people not wanting ther (sometimes incredibly) valuable books in objectively inferior slabs |
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I hear their hourly rate is outrageous!
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sportshort private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @dielinfinite I think you make some excellent points but, as stated (I don't know this for a fact as I am new to slabbing)this has been going on for years. You'd think they would have made their investment back by now also, imagine how many customers are leaving because of this reason and how many are not even trying CGC because of this very issue? the PR aspect is very difficult to overcome, what I would do is change whatever needed to be changed and act like it never happened so as not to draw unflattering attention to it. just my thoughts. |
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 I bought a meat grinder on amazon for $60 and it's changed my life.
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kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user | |
You can use either suction cups or slide 1" backer board strips through sides/bottom of case to remove newton rings easily. |
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I hear their hourly rate is outrageous!
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sportshort private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by kaptainmyke Great easy solution but I don't think CGC is down with explaining how to "fix" their holders. |
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Steverogers11 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by kaptainmykedidnt think they were permanently sealed I know people say this |
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 Thank you sir. May I have another?
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Siggy private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Steverogers11 While it is ridiculous that the issue isn't resolved, I also am not too bothered. I don't display what slabs I have, and the angle that shows the Newton rings isn't the angle I use to view the book. |
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Steverogers11 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Siggyditto |
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-Our Odin- Rest in Peace |
Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I've been told that the piece of paper or suction cup solutions aren't a permanent fix, that the rings will come back. Honestly, I think it is incredible how people just accept that these "remedies" are perfectly fine and acceptable. Does anyone actually believe that if the situation were flipped that people would be fine doing this to CBCS slabs? A major part of the problem is the dealers that continually submit and support CGC regardless of the newton rings. They do this because they have so much money wrapped up into CGC slabs that they would hurt themselves by saying there is a problem. So, they downplay it and everyone parrots them because they are the "professionals". With more and more people coming into the hobby, things are changing. People want to display their comics more. Why buy a $100 9.8 variant if you can't enjoy looking at it? Todays market is driven largely by variant covers. In short, a lot of people buy for the looks not for the content. For instance, people enjoy having Artgerm covers slabbed. Or people enjoy slabbing different variants of the same issue. Or collecting homages of a cover. Regardless, it's all about eye appeal and displaying the comics. That's where newton rings will greatly affect CGC submissions, IMO. |
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 SpongeBob Comics #1 sells for $991!
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Joosh private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I’m in the “I hate Newton Rings” camp. I also hate the oversized cases that allow the book to slide around. I returned a damaged book for this issue. I’ve yet to have any issue with a CBCS case. I think the biggest issue is CBCS is still seen as the new guy; it’s all perception. So if I’m thinking with my wallet, as in I plan to sell a book, I use CGC because there’s better odds of selling it at FMV, even with an ill fitting slab or NRs. When buying books graded I look for CBCS slabs because I can typically get a better deal. I trust CBCS grading and slabs more so than CGC; the general population does not. I’m hoping that changes. |
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Lonestar private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Jesse_O No they wouldn't. Some people hate CBCS so much that they excuse this flawed product from CGC. |
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I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Steverogers11 DITTO |
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 Collector
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KYoung_1974 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Jesse_O This reminds me of a talk that I just heard about the old Soviet Union/communism. Communism was supposed to be a utopia for the people, yet everyone was miserable. However, if you were a true believer you couldn't admit to being miserable, because as soon as you did, it was no longer utopia and all the problems became evident. This was one of the reasons that communism lasted as long as it did because everybody turned a blind eye. I'm just always fascinated to see the patterns of human behavior play out over and over in different forms. |
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 Collector
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dpiercy private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Every time I’ve started to insert a paper note card into the case I’ve noticed it starts to scuff the plastics and I’ve stopped the procedure. Getting the rings on an expensive book SUCKS. CGC should fix this damn problem. I’ve had books where the front cover looks like an oil slick. |
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-Our Odin- Rest in Peace |
Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by KYoung_1974 I've been trying to figure out what this mentality reminded me of and you nailed it!!! Thanks for that!!! |
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 Collector
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Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
| To hear some people describe it the slabbing and display cases are just to monetize the book anyways....discussions like this one patently illustrate that people also like viewing and displaying the comic and find the issue distracting...money be damned. | ||
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I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
@KYoung_1974 I hate those commie newton rings!!!! Better dead-thing than newton ring!  |
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 If the viagra is working you should be well over a 9.8.
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xkonk private msg quote post Address this user | |
| It reminds me of the Soviet Union and communism in that they claimed it was communism but it wasn't, like CGC claims they have a superior product and they don't. | ||
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 You do know that the new guy brings the donuts, right?
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DWeeB1967 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by GACLooks like @GAC just came up with the new CBCS corporate slogan.  |
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Collector
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KYoung_1974 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DWeeB1967 Or "Better a TAT-Delay than a newton ring in the way" |
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I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by KYoung_1974 I like it!! But the truth is CBCS is killing it on TATs and CGC has TAT delay AND Newton rings in the way. CGC value tier is running at 22+ weeks. Wait a helluva long time for those newton rings!!! lol! |
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Thank you sir. May I have another?
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Siggy private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Lonestar If the situation were TRULY flipped, then CBCS would be the older company, and so yes, I do think that because I agree with joosh said about 'the new guys'. |
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Thank you sir. May I have another?
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Siggy private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by GAC As long as CGC continues to get more business, it will be a mystery. |
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