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Batwoman - Anyone watch it?10245

Collector KYoung_1974 private msg quote post Address this user
Geez! I wake up and find this thread is still going.

Can we just say that Batwoman is the lesbian we need but not the lesbian we deserve and end it?
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Moderator Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user
Ok, I have to point out some very glaring fallacies here. A lot of people seemed convinced that the CW has some kind of agenda and are upset because Batwoman isn't being portrayed accurately.

First off, IF there is an agenda, it is being pushed by DC. Kate Kane (the character for the TV Batwoman) is a lesbian in the comics. The CW didn't change anything in that regards. From what I can tell, and yes, I watched the show, the show is actually accurate to the comics. Or at least, as accurate as tv shows tend to be.

The argument that this isn't the Batwoman you grew up with really isn't an argument. They told you that when they talked about demographics. Kate Kane first appeared in comics in 2006. So by choosing to do her as Batwoman, they are targeting people who think of her, and not Kathy Kane, as Batwoman. She is the Batwoman of the New 52 generation.

I find it interesting that many of the people who actually watched it are either holding off judgement or have liked it. The ones who didn't watch it, or only watched 5 minutes of it, are the ones complaining about an agenda.

Then there is the line about sacrificing story to push a lifestyle. Guess what, the lifestyle is part of her story!! She didn't fall into a well and become obsessed with bats. Her lifestyle and sexual preferences are tantamount to her character. To tell her story, you would actually be altering it by NOT showing her lifestyle.

I get that it is not everybody's cup of tea. I understand if you don't agree with it. But just be honest. Just say that you are not comfortable with the subject matter. Say that the current DC Universe is trash in your opinion. These are all valid opinions.

But when you judge something (either pro or con) without having examined it, that is the very definition of prejudice. And when a prejudiced person is convinced that their opinion is the only correct one, we end up with arguments. If you haven't watched it, I suggest you do so and form your own opinion.

For myself, I quite enjoyed it. But I'm not a DC guy and actually had very little clue on Kate Kane. I actually had to research her history to appreciate the storyline, but I'm glad I did. The character actually seems quite complex and driven by motives that are unique to her. That makes it interesting for me. It's not the same old story wrapped up in a new box.
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COLLECTOR Towmater private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse_O


I find it interesting that many of the people who actually watched it are either holding off judgement or have liked it. The ones who didn't watch it, or only watched 5 minutes of it, are the ones complaining about an agenda.


I watched it for 5 or so minutes and pretty much expressed that in my post that started this thread. However, I have NEVER stated anything about an "AGENDA" being the reason I turned it off. The 5 or so minutes I watched were horrible due to the acting (Alice was a bad rip-off of Harley Quinn with the over acting of Jared Leto's Joker thrown in), and the fight scene leading up to her getting captured by Alice was just bad TV.

No AGENDA on my end on why I didn't like it. I didn't like it because the show was acted and written at about at the same level as an after school special. Yep, in my opinion, it was that bad so I turned it off.

I started the thread because it was comic book related and I wanted to see if others watched it. If you note my first post asks if it got any better. I wanted to know it I should invest anymore time into something that might have gotten better after I turned it off. I didn't realize the thread would turn the way it did. As I stated, if I did I wouldn't have started the thread.

BTW, I didn't know the show touched on whatever AGENDA. Why? I hadn't read anything about it leading up to the show airing and in the 5 or so minutes I watched there wasn't anything in it about this AGENDA or that AGENDA. I only learned about the different AGENDAS that some see in the show through this thread.
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Collector GAC private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by KYoung_1974
Geez! I wake up and find this thread is still going.

Can we just say that Batwoman is the lesbian we need but not the lesbian we deserve and end it?


LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Gold!!
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Collector Enelson private msg quote post Address this user

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Collector DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user
@Enelson I thought it was sharks.
Post 81 IP   flag post
Moderator Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user
@Towmater your points are very well taken. And honestly, I totally agree with you on Alice. She definitely gives the impression of a Harley wannabe.

I think your lead post was a good one. I didn't quite grab that it was a lack of an agenda that turned you off though. And if you felt that strongly about it after 5 minutes, that's up to you. I will say that I thought the show did progress better after the first 10-15 minutes. I'll stick around for episode 2 and see if it continues to interest me.

But mostly, my comments were meant to be more general in observation of this thread. I wasn't trying to call any one out in particular. Sorry if that wasn't clear.
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Collector Jabberwookie private msg quote post Address this user
Zombie glue stage achieved...

Rebooting...
Post 83 IP   flag post
Collector xkonk private msg quote post Address this user
@Towmater you can't post about a CW show without it being about agendas.
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Collector OGJackster private msg quote post Address this user
If people don't like the word "agenda", what else would you call it? It's not done by accident. Whatever you want to call it, it's just not my cup of tea...I prefer beer Cheers!

This article was from NBC News a year ago:

clickable text

Record-high percentage of LGBTQ characters on broadcast TV, report finds
From CW’s “Supergirl” to NBC’s “Will & Grace” reboot, broadcast TV has served up a historic season for lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender and queer characters.
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Collector theCapraAegagrus private msg quote post Address this user
If a character or story goes out of its way to tell you something - then it's transparent agenda pressing. Now, I can't/won't discern whether or not Batwoman does this personally (because I haven't watched it; and won't), but my friends who have watched it say that it does.

I don't care for most of the heterosexual relationships in comic book movies or shows, either. Very rarely do they make sense. Thor and Jane Foster is a great example of it not working. Tony Stark and Pepper Potts are one of the few that actually enhance the characters and storytelling.
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Collector Jabberwookie private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by theCapraAegagrus
If a character or story goes out of its way to tell you something - then it's transparent agenda pressing. Now, I can't/won't discern whether or not Batwoman does this personally (because I haven't watched it; and won't), but my friends who have watched it say that it does.

I don't care for most of the heterosexual relationships in comic book movies or shows, either. Very rarely do they make sense. Thor and Jane Foster is a great example of it not working. Tony Stark and Pepper Potts are one of the few that actually enhance the characters and storytelling.


Maybe I’m wrong here, but it seems like you have more of a problem with the storytelling than anything else.

I mean when “agenda” gets brought out, I don’t see that’s what is. People, even heroes, have relationships. It’s just...life.

But, and this might be rambling so I apologize, I was watching Jaws last night and the foreshadowing and storytelling is fantastic.

But it’s subtle.

I think that’s what people don’t like is the ability to influence people or show another point of view was done in more creative ways.

Now, I’ll use Walking Dead for example, you have to tell us the survivors are the walking dead and not the zombies.

Just my take and no disrespect intended to anyone.
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Collector DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by xkonk
@Towmater you can't post about a CW show without it being about agendas.

That's because it is. Supergirl was great on CBS. It went to shit on the CW. The CW needs to just changed its name to LOGO2.
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Collector Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user
The ability by a few people to cling to the idea that their interpretation of lifestyles is the correct one and all others are a threat that uses an agenda is stunning.

Try walking down the other side of the street for fifteen minutes and try to grasp those people have dealt with your lifestyle and mainstreams ways of depicting it as the default for all for generations. I would suggest they see your movies, and their characters relationships and lifestyles as a constant agenda as well....except that they dont. They understand mainstream has and likely always cater to non-LGBT storylines. They are only trying to have something that takes into account or demonstrates their own way of living.

Of course the most in-genius method for battling an unreasonable and prejudice based fear is by screaming fire in a crowded theater. Every movie, each book is an agenda, each play or novel another shot in the war to somehow threaten your own lifestyle. The fact you are yourself following an agenda and always have that prefers and caters to your own chosen lifestyle is moot.


You could take about any population driven trend and say its at an all time high...because, well the population itself is at an all time high. Part of the problem with poor logic, cherrypicking statistics and attempting to suggest everything...is an agenda
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Collector OGJackster private msg quote post Address this user

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Collector theCapraAegagrus private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jabberwookie
Quote:
Originally Posted by theCapraAegagrus
If a character or story goes out of its way to tell you something - then it's transparent agenda pressing. Now, I can't/won't discern whether or not Batwoman does this personally (because I haven't watched it; and won't), but my friends who have watched it say that it does.

I don't care for most of the heterosexual relationships in comic book movies or shows, either. Very rarely do they make sense. Thor and Jane Foster is a great example of it not working. Tony Stark and Pepper Potts are one of the few that actually enhance the characters and storytelling.


Maybe I’m wrong here, but it seems like you have more of a problem with the storytelling than anything else.

I mean when “agenda” gets brought out, I don’t see that’s what is. People, even heroes, have relationships. It’s just...life.

But, and this might be rambling so I apologize, I was watching Jaws last night and the foreshadowing and storytelling is fantastic.

But it’s subtle.

I think that’s what people don’t like is the ability to influence people or show another point of view was done in more creative ways.

Now, I’ll use Walking Dead for example, you have to tell us the survivors are the walking dead and not the zombies.

Just my take and no disrespect intended to anyone.

Agenda-driven stories are bad, yes.

I understand that New 52 Batwoman is written as a lesbian. There are natural ways of incorporating sexuality into a character's story (not that it often works). There are other, seemingly unnatural ways of doing this, which draw attention to the character's trait - that is pandering. "Look at how gay she is!" Y'know?

Agenda-driven dialogue/scenes draw (typically - or seemingly typically - negative) attention because, I think, they're directed by someone who doesn't know what they're doing with that agenda/content. Or, it could be that someone doesn't know how to ACT with that content.

This almost driving me to the point where I wanna watch this and see how bad it actually is.
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Collector esaravo private msg quote post Address this user
So I watched the show last night on the CW app. I knew the background of the lead character (I had even seen her in cartoons). Now going in I didn’t have high expectations (not be because of any “agenda” but because of the CW’s track record). And the first 5 or so minutes seemed to me to be designed to grab your attention one way or another. Overall it was a mediocre story with predictable action, an unoriginal villain, and an expected twist (really, the body was never recovered?). MEH. I will watch another episode or two to see how it progresses, but pretty much all of the CW super-hero shows have become unwatchable IMO. I liked the first two plus seasons of Arrow, made it through a little over one season of Flash and Supergirl, and bailed on Black Lightning after a few episodes (and only could take one episode of Legends). So for me it comes down to this, if I watch something and feel it was worth my time, I will keep watching. If I feel like it was a waste of my time, see ya. So far, I would say the cartoon Batman: Bad Blood (with Yvonne “Chuck” Stahovski as the voice of Batwoman) was worth watching, but the jury’s still out on the live action version.
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Collector GAC private msg quote post Address this user
if the "agendas" out there don't tax me more, don't reduce or erode my freedoms, dont physically or mentally harm me, don't lower my quality of life in any way, don't impede or make my life any more difficult, is not illegal then I don't care. it's just a group of people that want something a certain way, that maybe other people want too, but doesn't affect me in any way....have at her.
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Collector Jabberwookie private msg quote post Address this user
I guess I have an agenda because I’m hoping it does well because I’ve got the issue where this batwoman first appears.

Oh, well!
Post 94 IP   flag post
Collector GAC private msg quote post Address this user
@Jabberwookie ha!!! perfectly reasonable agenda!
Post 95 IP   flag post
Collector obrie2tm private msg quote post Address this user
@Jabberwookie If the show doesn't do well, I'll happily assist you with liquidating said book from your collection
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COLLECTOR Towmater private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by xkonk
@Towmater you can't post about a CW show without it being about agendas.


News to me. Maybe it should become a forum rule that if you post something about a CW show it has to be about this agenda or that one.


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Collector OGJackster private msg quote post Address this user
Agendas aside, I will watch the Crisis on Infinite Earth crossover


Post 98 IP   flag post
Collector Jabberwookie private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by obrie2tm
@Jabberwookie If the show doesn't do well, I'll happily assist you with liquidating said book from your collection


Ha! Don’t get too excited! It’s just the one in 52.

You might be able buy a boat with it. A toy boat that is.
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Collector X51 private msg quote post Address this user
I've watched plenty of shows that I knew I wouldn't like and guess what? I didn't like them. Sat through two episodes of Walking Dead. It was just as un-entertaining as I thought it would be. I like DC's Captain Marvel character, but I saw enough annoying scenes in the trailer that I knew I'd leave not liking the recent movie. I don't have to immerse myself in things I don't like to know I don't like them. To say otherwise is absurd.

If you are easily offended, don't click the link.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eY7ZX6ngOSs
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Collector GAC private msg quote post Address this user
Dave's not here!
Post 101 IP   flag post
Collector OGJackster private msg quote post Address this user
@X51 HAHAAAA, I haven't heard that in a long time... and it's still funny!
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Collector OGJackster private msg quote post Address this user
One of my favorites
clickable text
Post 103 IP   flag post
Collector theCapraAegagrus private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by OGJackster
Agendas aside, I will watch the Crisis on Infinite Earth crossover



I don't watch any of the CW shows. Haven't in a while, but I will also be catching this Crisis crossover.
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COLLECTOR Towmater private msg quote post Address this user

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