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White Pages on a slabbed book10001

Collector agamoto private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by IronMan
Well, I'm closer in opinion to the OP.

Newsprint used in vintage comics was never WHITE to begin with.


Totally agree. I didn't see what I'd consider a truly "white" page until Marvel Fanfare came out in the 80's, prior to that, even fresh newstand copies had a slight yellow/red/brown tinge to the page.

I think the overstreet definition of white isn't actually #FFFFFF though, it's more along the lines of what's called "old lace", #FDF5E6

https://www.color-hex.com/color/fdf5e6
Post 26 IP   flag post
Collector Enelson private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Batman66


with older books it comes with a price tag. If your interested, I know the guy who owns this would take 115k


See...Now I would think it was cool to have an "exceptional White pages" book...


And thanks to everyone for sharing thoughts and opinions, I just have never really thought that much about the subject till recently. I just always felt "well it's slabbed and graded who cares" but I definitely see there is a significant difference in opinion. I guess I still feel once it's in a slab the interior and the look and feel of the pages no longer matter to me. However on a raw book- I am completely different in my opinion. This is actually why I was highly resistant to slabbing books until a few years ago

I actually expected more of an attack for asking about this subject...thanks!
Post 27 IP   flag post
If I could, I would. I swear. DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy49
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrWatson
It would matter if it were consistent. It's not, especially with books graded by the cgc.


have you ever called them out on it? meaning, ask them what they're using as a scale, or send them a comparison? better yet, a resubmission?

I posted about it on the cgc forum years ago. I have had hundreds of books cracked, pressed, and resubbed over the years and the page quality will change about 50% of the time. I specifically remember one signature series book that went from white to off-white white and then back to white between signings. I even had one cream to off-white come back as white after a press and resub. We used to joke that he pressed the white back on to the pages.
Post 28 IP   flag post
If I could, I would. I swear. DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy49
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrWatson
It would matter if it were consistent. It's not, especially with books graded by the cgc.


have you ever called them out on it? meaning, ask them what they're using as a scale, or send them a comparison? better yet, a resubmission?

I posted about it on the cgc forum years ago. I have had hundreds of books cracked, pressed, and resubbed over the years and the page quality will change about 50% of the time. I specifically remember one signature series book that went from white, to off-white white, and then back to white between signings. I even had one cream to off-white come back as white after a press and resub. We used to joke that he pressed the white back on to the pages.
Post 29 IP   flag post
If I could, I would. I swear. DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user
Oh, and Exceptional White, which grammatically should be Exceptionally White, is overkill and in my opinion a nod to the Doug Schmell school of huckster advertising. Bone White. Bleach White. Virgin White. Denta-Brite White... and so on and so forth.
Post 30 IP   flag post


Collector Broker1 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by GAC
it all depends on the era of the book. the older the book the more forgiving one can be on page quality. Bronze and newer should be white pages IMO. Older books get forgiven.


I agree mostly but having a rather large bronze age collection myself, I know first-hand how exceptional a white page comic book with 40+ years of aging actually is. They definitely deserve a premium IMHO.
Post 31 IP   flag post
I live in RI and Rhode Islanders eat chili with beans. esaravo private msg quote post Address this user
Most of the books that I submit for grading have been in my personal collection for 30 to 40 or more years. So I am extremely happy when they come back with white pages, satisfied when they get OW/W, a little disappointed with off-white, and somewhat displeased when they are identified as cream to off-white. But it’s the grade that is most important and sets the bar for value. So while I wish my X-Men #12 had white pages instead of CR/OW, I don’t think I will be replacing/upgrading it anytime soon.

I have not received any tan or brittle page quality designations, because unless it is a significant/valuable book, I probably wouldn’t submit it for grading (and yes, I do own some older books with tanned and oxidized covers and/or pages).

I do wonder about the consistency of page quality designations in BA and CA books I have submitted. For example, here’s two ASMs I had graded a few years ago.






I bought both books new, read them, bagged them, and placed them in the same long box right next to each other where they stayed for nearly 30 years, always side by side. Yet one has white pages and the other OW/W? Since storage conditions were identical, was one printed with whiter paper to start with? Or as @DrWatson says, blame the dart?

I also wonder about the new Exceptional White designation. I have gotten a few of my SA DC’s back with this page quality. Here’s two examples.






I was definitely psyched to see that on the labels. I have no idea how that designation impacts the value of the books - does anyone? And now I wonder about the SA DC’s that I had graded before that designation existed. How many of the ones that are listed as white would be exceptional white if I resubmitted them? Or maybe that was the point. Should I be chasing after the exceptional white designation the way the CPR collectors/flippers chase after grade bumps? Things are sure a lot more complicated now than they were 40 years ago, when books were either Poor/Fair, G/VG, FN/VF, or NM/M.
Post 32 IP   flag post
Collector 00slim private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by esaravo
Most of the books that I submit for grading have been in my personal collection for 30 to 40 or more years. So I am extremely happy when they come back with white pages, satisfied when they get OW/W, a little disappointed with off-white, and somewhat displeased when they are identified as cream to off-white. But it’s the grade that is most important and sets the bar for value. So while I wish my X-Men #12 had white pages instead of CR/OW, I don’t think I will be replacing/upgrading it anytime soon.

I have not received any tan or brittle page quality designations, because unless it is a significant/valuable book, I probably wouldn’t submit it for grading (and yes, I do own some older books with tanned and oxidized covers and/or pages).

I do wonder about the consistency of page quality designations in BA and CA books I have submitted. For example, here’s two ASMs I had graded a few years ago.






I bought both books new, read them, bagged them, and placed them in the same long box right next to each other where they stayed for nearly 30 years, always side by side. Yet one has white pages and the other OW/W? Since storage conditions were identical, was one printed with whiter paper to start with? Or as @DrWatson says, blame the dart?

I also wonder about the new Exceptional White designation. I have gotten a few of my SA DC’s back with this page quality. Here’s two examples.






I was definitely psyched to see that on the labels. I have no idea how that designation impacts the value of the books - does anyone? And now I wonder about the SA DC’s that I had graded before that designation existed. How many of the ones that are listed as white would be exceptional white if I resubmitted them? Or maybe that was the point. Should I be chasing after the exceptional white designation the way the CPR collectors/flippers chase after grade bumps? Things are sure a lot more complicated now than they were 40 years ago, when books were either Poor/Fair, G/VG, FN/VF, or NM/M.


With Silver age & older, the average price bump for White Pages seems to be 10-15%. I imagine, if the book is exceptionally rare or sought after, it could be more.

That’s the market for now, anyway.
Post 33 IP   flag post
Please continue to ignore anything I post. southerncross private msg quote post Address this user
I have a couple of books in the cream to off-white. That's generally the worse page quality I'll go for. I did years ago sent a Avengers 4 in to cgc and it came back light tan to off-white which I got rid of. I would never purchase a book with brittle pages somewhere on the slab. Pages on a book like that have not age well no matter the age and rarity. I do have one tan book in my collection. Big Apple pedigree and the page quality is tan to off-white. Since I submitted the book I know what it looks like inside.
Post 34 IP   flag post
Collector X51 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by agamoto
Quote:
Originally Posted by IronMan
Well, I'm closer in opinion to the OP.

Newsprint used in vintage comics was never WHITE to begin with.


Totally agree. I didn't see what I'd consider a truly "white" page until Marvel Fanfare came out in the 80's, prior to that, even fresh newstand copies had a slight yellow/red/brown tinge to the page.

I think the overstreet definition of white isn't actually #FFFFFF though, it's more along the lines of what's called "old lace", #FDF5E6

https://www.color-hex.com/color/fdf5e6


It made me laugh to see you use hex codes.

I had to reject some painted parts at work for being RAL 9018 when they needed to be RAL 9016. The irony is that the supplier should've had a (wrong) document saying to paint it RAL 7032.

http://ralcolors.co/
Post 35 IP   flag post
Collector X51 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrWatson
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy49
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrWatson
It would matter if it were consistent. It's not, especially with books graded by the cgc.


have you ever called them out on it? meaning, ask them what they're using as a scale, or send them a comparison? better yet, a resubmission?

I posted about it on the cgc forum years ago. I have had hundreds of books cracked, pressed, and resubbed over the years and the page quality will change about 50% of the time. I specifically remember one signature series book that went from white, to off-white white, and then back to white between signings. I even had one cream to off-white come back as white after a press and resub. We used to joke that he pressed the white back on to the pages.


Lighting affects everything.

We had some very large cabinets painted orange for a customer. Coming off the truck in the bright sunlight, it was obvious that the doors were a different shade than the cabinet itself. Once it was brought indoors, they looked exactly the same.
The fluorescent bulbs at work get more dim as they get older. If they are inspecting comics under recently replaced bulbs, you could easily get a better page color rating.
Post 36 IP   flag post
If I could, I would. I swear. DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by X51
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrWatson
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy49
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrWatson
It would matter if it were consistent. It's not, especially with books graded by the cgc.


have you ever called them out on it? meaning, ask them what they're using as a scale, or send them a comparison? better yet, a resubmission?

I posted about it on the cgc forum years ago. I have had hundreds of books cracked, pressed, and resubbed over the years and the page quality will change about 50% of the time. I specifically remember one signature series book that went from white, to off-white white, and then back to white between signings. I even had one cream to off-white come back as white after a press and resub. We used to joke that he pressed the white back on to the pages.


Lighting affects everything.

We had some very large cabinets painted orange for a customer. Coming off the truck in the bright sunlight, it was obvious that the doors were a different shade than the cabinet itself. Once it was brought indoors, they looked exactly the same.
The fluorescent bulbs at work get more dim as they get older. If they are inspecting comics under recently replaced bulbs, you could easily get a better page color rating.

Oh, for sure. I had a sofa that was brown outside in the sun and green when placed inside in the living room.
Post 37 IP   flag post
I'm a #2. BigRedOne1944 private msg quote post Address this user
As someone else eluded to earlier the page color designation is the least thing Im conerned with in a slabbed book. As long as its in the "Off White/White" to "White" range Im good with that.

I have to agree with DrWatson.... It's a dart throw and way to much hype made over it.
Post 38 IP   flag post
Collector agamoto private msg quote post Address this user



My first "Exceptional White".

How I wish that zero was an 8. I get the checkmark though, so that's nice.

What sort of value premium is assigned to this level of insane whiteness?
Post 39 IP   flag post
I live in RI and Rhode Islanders eat chili with beans. esaravo private msg quote post Address this user
@agamoto - I wish I knew. I have received Exceptional White page quality designations on four DC comics from the 1960's that I had graded by CBCS. I also have several other DC's from that time period that were graded by CBCS before they started using Exceptional White that received White page quality designations. I don't plan on resubmitting those issues, although I believe at least a few would qualify for the new designation.
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If I could, I would. I swear. DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user
What I associated with the new designation:

Post 41 IP   flag post
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