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I'm sure it's a temporary but, thoughts?5042

Collector 00slim private msg quote post Address this user
So, I have a low grade Daredevil #1 (CBCS 3.0). Periodically, I check the going rate on e-bay for my rarer books & I noticed something.

While a CBCS 3.0 goes for around $700, a CGC 3.0 is demanding about $1,000.

Is this just sellers settling for less? Or, is this the trend?

I'm confident that this is temporary & will turn around after the CBCS/Beckett merger is complete.
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Collector ComicHaulics private msg quote post Address this user
I feel it has always kind of been that way. CGC books demand the most value, followed closely by CBCS, while PGX sits far in the back. Again, that's just the way I have seen it. We have nothing against any of the companies
Post 2 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user
@00slim Part of what's made it difficult for me is just that there aren't a ton of recorded sales for many CBCS books at the grade you may be looking at. Just one anecdotal example, I was looking at the values for one of my books and while the average sell price for a CGC Book was a couple hundred above the average sell price for the same CBCS book, the CGC average was derived from at least a dozen sales while the CBCS average was being calculated from 1 sale. Now the CBCS price was higher than some of the CGC sales but the CGC book had more sales to pull the average up.
Post 3 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR conditionfreak private msg quote post Address this user
I assume it will level out over time. But it hurts until it gets better.

One thing I have noticed, is that on Ebay. A lot of sellers put in their titles something like "Not CGC", or "Not CBCS or PGX".

That is, of course to make their wares show up in searches when someone just puts in one set of company initials. But I think some people think "Not CBCS or PGX" means that the seller believes those two companies are NOT up to high standards.

Funny thing is, they are right about PGX but wrong about CBCS.

Since there are a whole lot more CGC books for sale than CBCS books for sale. This would tend to push more people into the belief that more sellers of comic books believe CBCS is not on par with CGC. When in reality, the sellers are just using those statements to bring searches to their ad.

No way to address that situation that I can think of. Except to get more CBCS books for sale on Ebay, with "Not CGC" in the title.
Post 4 IP   flag post
Collector 00slim private msg quote post Address this user
Yeah, I usually list CBCS slabs I sell as "Like CGC". I'm not sure listing them as "Not CGC" would make a drastic difference for the overall market, but it could mislead the already uninformed.
Post 5 IP   flag post
Collector Lonestar private msg quote post Address this user
The disparity in sales prices of CGC vs. CBCS has been discussed on the boards from time to time. As has been said before, a big part of this is the fact that CGC has been in business far longer than CBCS, so they are still better known and have far greater market penetration. While many buyers are getting familiar with CBCS, there are still some who are not. So it will take time for the market to even out, probably far longer than most will be happy with.

I do think some of the recent bad press on CBCS such as the video showing how to open the slab and now the issue with the verified signatures has contributed. But his should pass more quickly as consumers gain more familiarity with CBCS and gain more confidence.

While this is sad news for those trying to sell CBCS slabs, I view it as an opportunity. I don't currently sell slabs, but I will buy some, and when I do I look for value. I recently bought two CBCS slabs on Ebay, both for far less than a raw book of that grade should sell for, let alone a slabbed and graded book. I'm very happy with the purchases and if(when?) I do decide to sell them in a few years, I'm sure I can do so for a profit. For now, I get to enjoy them.
Post 6 IP   flag post
Collector BabaLament private msg quote post Address this user
High dollar auction sales help too. I'm sure if a couple copies of Action Comics #1, Detective Comics #27, Avengers #1, ASM #1, etc. show up on the block at Heritage sporting the CBCS slab, it'll help raise the value/visibility of the entire CBCS brand.

I'll do my part to help by scouring estate sales & barn auctions until I come across some of those issues, and I know you guys & gals will do the same.
Post 7 IP   flag post
Collector Mickcatron private msg quote post Address this user
@Lonestar - what's the verified signature issue, wasn't aware there was one?
Post 8 IP   flag post
Collector 00slim private msg quote post Address this user
If I remember correctly, there was some forged Liefeld art & signatures that passed verification.
Post 9 IP   flag post
Collector Lonestar private msg quote post Address this user
@Mickcatron
clickable text
See this thread from these forums for more info.
Post 10 IP   flag post
Collector Homer private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by 00slim
Yeah, I usually list CBCS slabs I sell as "Like CGC". I'm not sure listing them as "Not CGC" would make a drastic difference for the overall market, but it could mislead the already uninformed.


That is 100% keyword spamming on eBay and is a listing violation. Please discontinue the practice.
Post 11 IP   flag post
Collector Mickcatron private msg quote post Address this user
Thanks
Post 12 IP   flag post
Collector 00slim private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Homer
Quote:
Originally Posted by 00slim
Yeah, I usually list CBCS slabs I sell as "Like CGC". I'm not sure listing them as "Not CGC" would make a drastic difference for the overall market, but it could mislead the already uninformed.


That is 100% keyword spamming on eBay and is a listing violation. Please discontinue the practice.


Where do you fall on "Not CGC"?
Post 13 IP   flag post
Collector X51 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by 00slim
So, I have a low grade Daredevil #1 (CBCS 3.0). Periodically, I check the going rate on e-bay for my rarer books & I noticed something.

While a CBCS 3.0 goes for around $700, a CGC 3.0 is demanding about $1,000.

Is this just sellers settling for less? Or, is this the trend?

I'm confident that this is temporary & will turn around after the CBCS/Beckett merger is complete.


I brought this up in another thread. CGC is better known. It has become a brand like Xerox. Regardless of who makes a copier, people say "Xerox a copy of that for your records." On eBay, when people want a graded copy, they add CGC to their search parameters. That automatically gives them a better chance of popping up on search results and achieving higher sales. CGC also gets a slight bump because they have a registry and people lean towards them to show off. That isn't going to make as big of a difference on lower grades, but it is a good marketing angle.
Post 14 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR conditionfreak private msg quote post Address this user
I purchased a couple of 9.8 slabs for my own Christmas present recently (gave them to my wife to wrap or I would share pics here).

But my point is this. The Comic Mint had them on sale for about $50 each. And you had the choice of both in CBCS or CGC. I chose CBCS and am very pleased with them. But their price for either company was the same.

Anecdotal info for sure, but relevant.
Post 15 IP   flag post
Collector Homer private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by 00slim
Quote:
Originally Posted by Homer
Quote:
Originally Posted by 00slim
Yeah, I usually list CBCS slabs I sell as "Like CGC". I'm not sure listing them as "Not CGC" would make a drastic difference for the overall market, but it could mislead the already uninformed.


That is 100% keyword spamming on eBay and is a listing violation. Please discontinue the practice.


Where do you fall on "Not CGC"?


If your selling a cbcs book, including keywords of cgc or pgx in any manner is a listing violation. Your only doing this to capture someone who is searching for a cgc or pgx book specifically. Those are brand names of other grading companies and it is not a product you are selling.
Post 16 IP   flag post
Collector 00slim private msg quote post Address this user
It's definitely good to see a retailer testing the books equally. Definitely relevant, thanks @conditionfreak.

@Homer Since there is no deceit implied or intended, noting "not CGC", or "like CGC" in the title shouldn't matter.

Because CBCS is still growing, you're simply proving an option the buyer may not have otherwise considered or even known about. Simply saying, "hey, I have a slabbed option you may not have considered". You aren't offering it as a CGC.

It is not the same as offering something as "like new" which is not allowed. This is not allowed because it could confuse someone when it comes to an item's condition. In the graded comics arena, they know the condition. It's plainly stated on the label.

But, we may have to agree to disagree.
Post 17 IP   flag post
Collector JustABitEvil private msg quote post Address this user
As someone who is strictly a buyer I have noticed that CBCS trends lower most of the time. This is sadly not something that I've tracked actively as I generally use eBay for prices on raw books to give myself an idea of what I should be spending at flea markets and cons where I prefer to shop. I'm still not completely sold on collecting slabs but I'm definitely going to be paying more attention to those prices because if I do start collecting them, I obviously want the slabs to match.
Post 18 IP   flag post
Collector JustABitEvil private msg quote post Address this user


If your selling a cbcs book, including keywords of cgc or pgx in any manner is a listing violation. Your only doing this to capture someone who is searching for a cgc or pgx book specifically. Those are brand names of other grading companies and it is not a product you are selling.

I recently did a search for "CBCS X-Men" and I'd say at least 1/3 of the ads say 'like CGC' or 'not CGC'.
Post 19 IP   flag post
Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by 00slim
It's definitely good to see a retailer testing the books equally. Definitely relevant, thanks @conditionfreak.

@Homer Since there is no deceit implied or intended, noting "not CGC", or "like CGC" in the title shouldn't matter.

Because CBCS is still growing, you're simply proving an option the buyer may not have otherwise considered or even known about. Simply saying, "hey, I have a slabbed option you may not have considered". You aren't offering it as a CGC.

It is not the same as offering something as "like new" which is not allowed. This is not allowed because it could confuse someone when it comes to an item's condition. In the graded comics arena, they know the condition. It's plainly stated on the label.

But, we may have to agree to disagree.


There is no "agreeing to disagree" here.

It's a violation of eBay policy.

Why?

Because it clogs up the listings for people searching for a specific item. If I'm looking for a copy of Hulk #181, I have to wade through over 600 listings that include the search terms "Hulk 181", only about 100 of which are actual copies of Hulk #181.

It means that a certain percentage of buyers are going to end up frustrated, because they can't find what they actually want, and have to wade through mounds of shit to get to it.

And a certain percentage of THOSE buyers will just go somewhere else, where they don't have to wade through piles of shit, to buy what they want.

And that hurts everyone on eBay...including you.

Yes, categories help, but only to an extent, and they frequently EXCLUDE actual examples of what I'm looking for, if people put them in a different category.

If I want CGC comics, I don't want to see a raft of CBCS slabs come up. And, if I want CBCS comics, likewise, I don't want to see CGC come up. If CGC is "more well known", then CBCS has a PR hill they need to climb, but you don't get to "help them" in that way.

And, lest you still disagree...there are also a certain percentage of buyers who put keyword spamming sellers on their blacklist for trying to unfairly game the system. Why anger potential customers?

https://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/search-manipulation.html#keyword

Hopefully, you read this and don't get angry at a "preachy know-it-all", but rather consider it good advice that will help you and everyone in the long run.
Post 20 IP   flag post
Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
Since "brand names" were mentioned above by other posters, I'll point this out, under the same eBay policy page linked above:

"Brand Names - Brand names, celebrities, or other product details can't be specified in a listing if you're not selling an item by those brands. For example, if you're selling a Coach handbag, you can't mention Gucci or other brand-name handbags."

Substitute "CBCS slab" with "Coach handbag", and "CGC" with "Gucci", and that's your prohibition.
Post 21 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR conditionfreak private msg quote post Address this user
Ebay provides on their Advanced Search feature, a way to exclude certain words from showing up on a search.

Use it people, if you don't want CGC or PGX to show up in your results.
Post 22 IP   flag post
Collector 50AE_DE private msg quote post Address this user
Like it or not, CBCS will continue to be second to CGC. It's going to be a while before the overtake CGC.
Post 23 IP   flag post
Collector Homer private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by conditionfreak
Ebay provides on their Advanced Search feature, a way to exclude certain words from showing up on a search.

Use it people, if you don't want CGC or PGX to show up in your results.


Exactly the point I'm trying to make, if someone is selling a CBCS book and types in CBCS like CGC, and you filter out CGC. You than by default filter out the clown with a CBCS book spamming CGC.
Post 24 IP   flag post
Collector Homer private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by 50AE_DE
Like it or not, CBCS will continue to be second to CGC. It's going to be a while before the overtake CGC.


I have a difficult time understanding your scenario. CBCS only makes money by grading comic books, they do not have anything financially invested on how they sell.

They could grade one million books for a collector who never sells a single book and be the most financially profitable grading company.
Post 25 IP   flag post
Collector 50AE_DE private msg quote post Address this user
I'm referring to the value of their books. I don't see books graded by CBCS consistently selling for more than a CGC book, at least not any time soon.
Post 26 IP   flag post
Collector 50AE_DE private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocBrown
Quote:
Originally Posted by 00slim
It's definitely good to see a retailer testing the books equally. Definitely relevant, thanks @conditionfreak.

@Homer Since there is no deceit implied or intended, noting "not CGC", or "like CGC" in the title shouldn't matter.

Because CBCS is still growing, you're simply proving an option the buyer may not have otherwise considered or even known about. Simply saying, "hey, I have a slabbed option you may not have considered". You aren't offering it as a CGC.

It is not the same as offering something as "like new" which is not allowed. This is not allowed because it could confuse someone when it comes to an item's condition. In the graded comics arena, they know the condition. It's plainly stated on the label.

But, we may have to agree to disagree.


There is no "agreeing to disagree" here.

It's a violation of eBay policy.

Why?

Because it clogs up the listings for people searching for a specific item. If I'm looking for a copy of Hulk #181, I have to wade through over 600 listings that include the search terms "Hulk 181", only about 100 of which are actual copies of Hulk #181.

It means that a certain percentage of buyers are going to end up frustrated, because they can't find what they actually want, and have to wade through mounds of shit to get to it.

And a certain percentage of THOSE buyers will just go somewhere else, where they don't have to wade through piles of shit, to buy what they want.

And that hurts everyone on eBay...including you.

Yes, categories help, but only to an extent, and they frequently EXCLUDE actual examples of what I'm looking for, if people put them in a different category.

If I want CGC comics, I don't want to see a raft of CBCS slabs come up. And, if I want CBCS comics, likewise, I don't want to see CGC come up. If CGC is "more well known", then CBCS has a PR hill they need to climb, but you don't get to "help them" in that way.

And, lest you still disagree...there are also a certain percentage of buyers who put keyword spamming sellers on their blacklist for trying to unfairly game the system. Why anger potential customers?

https://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/search-manipulation.html#keyword

Hopefully, you read this and don't get angry at a "preachy know-it-all", but rather consider it good advice that will help you and everyone in the long run.


I agree with this. It gets frustrating looking through listings only to see a bunch of "photocopy" books. Yes, I can filter that garbage out by using the "-photocopy" in the search field, but it's an inconvenience to have to do that. I understand the seller wants to try to get more eyes on their listing as possible, but that shit is just frustrating.
Post 27 IP   flag post
Collector Homer private msg quote post Address this user
I believe one reason CBCS books sell better via auction platforms like Heritage, CC, and Comic Link is because of a cleaner exposure. Ebay is so cluttered with keyword spamming, it becomes overwhelming to filter out the background noise, and in the end it hurts the values of CBCS books via the auction route.
Post 28 IP   flag post
Collector CopperAgeKids private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by 00slim
So, I have a low grade Daredevil #1 (CBCS 3.0). Periodically, I check the going rate on e-bay for my rarer books & I noticed something.

While a CBCS 3.0 goes for around $700, a CGC 3.0 is demanding about $1,000.

Is this just sellers settling for less? Or, is this the trend?

I'm confident that this is temporary & will turn around after the CBCS/Beckett merger is complete.


There are too many variables to account for to say a CGC 3.0 is definitively worth $300 more than a CBCS 3.0, just by looking at 2 sales.

But I would say that "no, a 1/3 price gap does simply not exist".

First, those were both auction prices.Auction prices vary for another 100 reasons.This has already been discussed extensively on this board, as well as the CGC board....but focal points are PQ designations, poor ending times opposed to optimal ending time, who sold it, the number of competing slabbed copies for sale at the time and even raw copies or slabbed copies between in all grades up to 4.0, selling in auction format at the same time thereby driving the overall closing prices down slightly, at the time which,aaaand was there a did one of the sales occur when a new season of Netflix's Daredevil had the first trailer released, etc.etc.etc.

Second, the price differentials between 2.0,2.5,3.0 is really not that drastic on this book.

Finally, the sheer number of recorded sales in the past 2 years( as far back as GOCOLLECT tracks) between CBCS and CGC graded copies of DD# 1 is roughly 10 to 1.

CBCS sales are at a total of 29, spanning all grades from 0.3 to 8.5.

http://comics.gocollect.com/priceguide/view/124792

CGC sales are at 220, spanning 0.5 to 9.4.

http://comics.gocollect.com/priceguide/view/124792

If you look at the 2 year average for CGC 3.0 it is $855.11 with 20 CGC 3.0's sold.

Now for CBCS AT 3.0, there is 7 sold within 2 years at 3.0, average price is at $792.42.

So, if you look purely at the average of 3.0's, the differential is about $60....not around $300.

Even than, there are still a veritable effton of variables
to consider, as alluded to above.

On that point, here is another...the average price for a CBCS 2.5 within 24 months is higher at $865.60 with 2 sales altogether ( both fixed price sales at $831.24 and $899.95 )than the average price of a CBCS 3.0, in 24 months....the CBCS 2.5 average is also higher than the CGC 3.0 average, which is $855.11.
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Collector 50AE_DE private msg quote post Address this user
When you say CBCS books sell better through HA, CC, and CL, do you mean they sell for more than a comparable graded CGC book or they'll sell for more than what they would on eBay?

I'm not a big fan of keyword spamming.
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