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NEW CGC HOLDER TO CBCS 20% OFF til July 1st429

President SteveBorock private msg quote post Address this user
20% OFF GRADING FEES CROSSING OVER FROM THE NEW CGC CASE TO THE CBCS HOLDER. (Valid until July 1st!)

I did not want to write this, but feel that I must.

CBCS is offering to re-grade any comic in the new CGC holder for 20% less than we would normally charge. You may ask why we would do that, well the explanations are below....

CBCS has been receiving many phone calls and emails about problems with the new CGC holder, asking us if our holder has the same problems. We always say "No, it does not. We have a crystal clear, light weight holder that uses an archival grade PETG inner well which provides state of the art protection. Our design has been tested time & time again".

I have also read and seen the examples of the problems on chat boards and even 2 cases in person. I was just told yesterday, by many people, that the issues with the new CGC holder was the talk of the convention at Megacon. Collectors & dealers are worried, as well they should be.

Problems like:

*Books shifting around in the CGC holder and looking crooked with potential to damage books through transit.

*Books that get wrinkled in the CGC holder. (There was an example posted on the CGC boards where a collector got their book in the new holder all wrinkled, sent it back to them for re-holder, and it still came back the same way. This person was not happy at all. I know I would not be.)

*Acrylic can come off of the cover and sticking to the interior of the CGC holder on restored books.

*Too much pressure on the books from the CGC holder. This is a problem for many reasons for different types of books as it could pop staples that are already fragile (D.C. Silver Age is notorious for popped staples even if there is not too much pressure on a comic in the 1st place). It is a problem for books with a spine roll that has weak paper, as the pressure could split the cover or, worse, splitting interior pages and not the cover. The owner of the book would never know by looking at it, but once taken out of the holder, would see that the comic book would not just become a lower grade, but that has been ruined.

*On many brand new books the inks are already unstable and we have seen that the inks by the staples, from the pressure, also gets stuck to the Mylar. Another example of how excessive pressure associated with encapsulating a book in this holder poses a risk to the comic.

*Inserts in books can make dent-lines to the pages and/or cover.

*"Newton Rings" which causes an appearance of an oily looking film on and around the comic. This will always be a problem with this design, but especially if there is too much pressure.

All of these design related issues are the reason, when I was helping CGC design their original holder, we decided not to go with a heavy "Fortress" type holder. I did not like the "Fortress" in the '90's for the same reasons listed above and, when CBCS gets in a book submitted to us in a Fortress, we call or email the customer explaining the potential damage the book might have suffered in the fortress and get permission before opening it for grading. If we do not get permission in writing, we ship the book back to the collector as we do not want to get blamed for damage we did not do.

When CBCS started out, we took a big hit that a "start-up" could not afford, but did it because we did not want to damage a single comic if possible. Here is a quote about it that CBCS CEO Michael Bornstein wrote on our forums just recently:

"When CBCS first opened we had a problem with our inner well. Unbeknownst to us, the plastics company used recycled PETG for the inner well. They did not use recycled during any of our testing prior to us opening. PETG comes in huge rolls and when it is molded and cut, there is a lot of waste. For conservation purposes, this wasted plastic is melted down and reformed. A plastic can go through hundreds of cycles before it is actually used in the final product. This can degrade the integrity of the plastic. In most cases, it won’t matter. In our case, it was a big deal. The plastic tore very easily. This could have damaged comics. Rather than take that chance, we stopped encasing comics to investigate. We gave up to 30% discounts to people who sent in comics with the understanding that it would take longer for them to be returned as we investigate and solve the problem. It fortunately turned out to be a simple solution—use virgin PETG. It is no more expensive than recycled. Cost was not the issue. The plastics company was just trying to be environmentally conscious. We did not keep sending out cases that could potentially damage comics. We did not take the chance that an inferior product would continue. We did not hide anything from our customers. We simply stopped production until the problem could be fixed. It could have been the end of our company if the problem turned out to be bigger than that. There wasn’t even discussion about what was right. We would rather close than potentially hurt comics. I wish this were the case with all grading companies."

It is regrettable that CGC is making a different choice to keep encapsulating comics in a case that they know has serious design flaws. They could stop encapsulating books until they rectified the problem but, to my dismay, they have not. The owners of CGC can afford to take the kind of hit we did, we could not. It hurt us very badly, but at CBCS we feel that our customers and the hobby must come 1st.

I had hoped they felt the same way about all of you, I guess they do not. As many of you know, I do not talk badly about our competition and ask others on our Facebook pages and our chat board not to talk badly about them either. That is why this was very hard for me to write.

All of us at CBCS love our hobby and the comic books you entrust us to grade. We love the collectors and dealers that some of us have known for many, many years and the ones we have just recently been acquainted with.

So all that said, these are the reasons that CBCS is willing to cross-over any new CGC case into our CBCS holder at a 20% discount off the grading. Yes, this means we don't make money, but as I stated before, we care more about the comic books and especially you.

Sorry for the long winded post, but I hope this helps some of you.

As always, happy collecting!
-Steve Borock
Post 1 • IP   flag post
Collector stophmaster private msg quote post Address this user
Wow @SteveBorock, class move! I have one book in the new CGC holder, and I'll probably be taking you up on this offer. Great move on the part of CBCS...well done!

Cheers
Post 2 • IP   flag post
President SteveBorock private msg quote post Address this user
Thanks, Stophmaster!
Post 3 • IP   flag post
Collector roarzola private msg quote post Address this user
Thank you for the offer.

I currently see some books I am interested in on ebay but they are in the new holder. They look good in the picture, but I am concerned about the long term effect. This is a wonderful option and I believe in this company.
Post 4 • IP   flag post
President SteveBorock private msg quote post Address this user
Thanks, Roarzola!
Post 5 • IP   flag post
Collector Stelbert_Stylton private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by roarzola
I currently see some CGC books I am interested in on ebay but they are in the new holder. They look good in the picture, but I am concerned about the long term effect.


Buy them and crack them out
Post 6 • IP   flag post
Collector Happylemon private msg quote post Address this user
Sounds a good business move :-) well done for helping the community
Post 7 • IP   flag post
President SteveBorock private msg quote post Address this user
Thanks, HappyLemon!
Post 8 • IP   flag post
Collector matterus023 private msg quote post Address this user
I have been following this for a long time. I have spoke to many who thought this would be a great time for CBCS to offer something like this. Not in an underhanded childish way but in a professional manner which if you read the post shines through again.

Another slow clap I feel
Post 9 • IP   flag post
Collector Kimchidread private msg quote post Address this user
Very cool of you Steve. If I send in the cgc case, will you all crack it out?
Post 10 • IP   flag post
Collector Jayzer private msg quote post Address this user
Just one more example of why I have come to love this company. I'm a new convert but still have one last book at CGC and have been worried about how it was going to look in the new case. This takes a lot of weight off, as soon as it arrives I'll be sending it to CBCS to take you up on the re-stabbing. Thank you Mr. Borock, this is truly a classy move on your part!
Post 11 • IP   flag post
Collector Sqeggs private msg quote post Address this user
Steve,

Opportunity has not only knocked, he's pulled up to the curb in a limo and he's waving you in.

The other guys have suffered an enormous self-inflicted wound.

But ... the grading thing. Still a stumbling block in the way of me (and I think a lot of other people) switching teams.
Post 12 • IP   flag post
Collector Absolute_Zero private msg quote post Address this user
Excellent news to here of this @SteveBorock I am wanting to get a commission done but the Artist is sending ot to CGC and with what has been going on with the Holders was really scared of getting it sent there. Will you be abke do do this but under the Original Art Piece of CBCS Program? I am submitting one for my Bday gift to myself and you guys will get it at Denver Comic Con when the artist delivers it to the booth. This is one of many reasons why I love CBCS Keep Up the Great Work Team!!
Post 13 • IP   flag post
Collector matterus023 private msg quote post Address this user
All it shows is good buisness sense and more to the point customer care. Anyone could say it is disengenous and no way to prove those people wrong. But if by stating facts about another company is damning to the company in question, then CGC should take a step back and ask themselves why they let it get to this point

All I hear is good stuff about CBCS. Eventually you just have to say ok I believe these guys are here to help.

Regarding grading:- The actual grades given are far less of a concern to me than actual consistency. This is what I would be looking for. Grading is subjective. The trick is to stay as accurate as you can to your own guidelines. Do that then watch the customers roll in
Post 14 • IP   flag post
Collector mPoore private msg quote post Address this user
This is one of the many reasons why Steve Borock and CBCS are #1!
Post 15 • IP   flag post
Collector DavidTheDavid private msg quote post Address this user
Does that mean we would submit the comics in their new slabs for cbcs personnel to crack out? How long will this offer stand?
Post 16 • IP   flag post
Collector RRO private msg quote post Address this user
Steve, I have talked to the Queen about that knighthood, she was thinking more along the lines of a CBE, but that would just confuse people involved at both companies.
Post 17 • IP   flag post
Collector Maverick private msg quote post Address this user
@SteveBorock Very smart move. If I was unfortunate enough to own some of these frankenslabs I would be all over this deal.

This should be a huge boost in sales for you guys, I'm happy to see CBCS flourish. Hopefully the extra business doesn't hurt the turnaround times too much.
Post 18 • IP   flag post
Collector Brubaker private msg quote post Address this user
CBCS > PGX > CGC

nuff said.
Post 19 • IP   flag post
Collector qube private msg quote post Address this user
Class move from CBCS. Very proud to have made the switch, and as this controversy at the other guys draws out, there is less and less of a chance that I'll ever go back.

Had they handled this professionally, and taken ownership of it, I would feel very differently from the way I do now, which is distrustful of a company that, in all honesty, I didn't trust much to begin with.
Post 20 • IP   flag post
Collector Marc_1 private msg quote post Address this user
Smart move Steve. CGC has not publicly done anything to address this beyond a few posts on the forum. The conversations on Facebook, and outside of their forum has been happening.

I don't get their lack of PR in this issue and with some of the evidence I just saw yesterday with a cracked out book having the same waves as they did inside the case...that's scares the piss out of me for my books. I have a new CGC Iron Man 54 9.4 and it's quite wavy. Ugh!

Just be careful about the level of publicly bashing them as opposed to stating the clear facts...i'd hate to see any legal issues arise. Just my .02 cents bro.
Post 21 • IP   flag post
CBCS Pressing SteveRicketts private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sqeggs
Steve,

Opportunity has not only knocked, he's pulled up to the curb in a limo and he's waving you in.

The other guys have suffered an enormous self-inflicted wound.

But ... the grading thing. Still a stumbling block in the way of me (and I think a lot of other people) switching teams.


Rest assured, we are paying attention to all the comments and suggestions.
Post 22 • IP   flag post
President SteveBorock private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimchidread
Very cool of you Steve. If I send in the cgc case, will you all crack it out?

Yes, we will crack it out for you.
Post 23 • IP   flag post
President SteveBorock private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc_1
Smart move Steve. CGC has not publicly done anything to address this beyond a few posts on the forum. The conversations on Facebook, and outside of their forum has been happening.

I don't get their lack of PR in this issue and with some of the evidence I just saw yesterday with a cracked out book having the same waves as they did inside the case...that's scares the piss out of me for my books. I have a new CGC Iron Man 54 9.4 and it's quite wavy. Ugh!

Just be careful about the level of publicly bashing them as opposed to stating the clear facts...i'd hate to see any legal issues arise. Just my .02 cents bro.


I have never bashed CGC. As I mentioned in my original post, it was a post I did not want to make as I really thought they would stop putting books in the new holder, but they have not. When we 1st started CGC, we were going to open in November of 1999. We could not get the holder correct, so we returned all the books submitted and waited until Jan 2000 to grade books once we got the holder correct. I knew that was the best move at the time for CGC and the hobby.
Post 24 • IP   flag post
President SteveBorock private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidTheDavid
Does that mean we would submit the comics in their new slabs for cbcs personnel to crack out? How long will this offer stand?


Yes, we will open the holders for you.

The offer stands until we feel it is no longer needed.
Post 25 • IP   flag post
Collector Pre_Coder private msg quote post Address this user
I highly recommend those of you who have books slabbed in the new CGC holder (especially Golden Age/Silver Age books - pressed or not (especially pressed)) to take advantage of this offer, for the sake of the book and your piece of mind.
Post 26 • IP   flag post
Collector Marc_1 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveBorock
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc_1
Smart move Steve. CGC has not publicly done anything to address this beyond a few posts on the forum. The conversations on Facebook, and outside of their forum has been happening.

I don't get their lack of PR in this issue and with some of the evidence I just saw yesterday with a cracked out book having the same waves as they did inside the case...that's scares the piss out of me for my books. I have a new CGC Iron Man 54 9.4 and it's quite wavy. Ugh!

Just be careful about the level of publicly bashing them as opposed to stating the clear facts...i'd hate to see any legal issues arise. Just my .02 cents bro.


I have never bashed CGC. As I mentioned in my original post, it was a post I did not want to make as I really thought they would stop putting books in the new holder, but they have not. When we 1st started CGC, we were going to open in November of 1999. We could not get the holder correct, so we returned all the books submitted and waited until Jan 2000 to grade books once we got the holder correct. I knew that was the best move at the time for CGC and the hobby.


Thanks Steve. I didn't meant to imply you were bashing them. I just don't think they will see it the same way.

I suggested about a week ago on here and on the CGC forum that had CBCS as an example of shutting the process down to get it right when your plastics issue came up. I also said CGC needs to do this now. Keep grading books but stop the encapsulation process until they can get this sorted out. They haven't and now they have this mess.

What I've seen the past couple of days completely contradicts a conversation I had with Matt Nelson the other day.

I think Matt is also a nice guy who is trying hard. But the cases posted recently are horrific as a comic collector.

I've said it all along that I like both companies and don't want to make some choice of one over the other. But now I am in the same boat as others that I have to choose CBCS solely until CGC really announces this publicly and does something about it.
Post 27 • IP   flag post
Collector roarzola private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveBorock
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc_1
Smart move Steve. CGC has not publicly done anything to address this beyond a few posts on the forum. The conversations on Facebook, and outside of their forum has been happening.

I don't get their lack of PR in this issue and with some of the evidence I just saw yesterday with a cracked out book having the same waves as they did inside the case...that's scares the piss out of me for my books. I have a new CGC Iron Man 54 9.4 and it's quite wavy. Ugh!

Just be careful about the level of publicly bashing them as opposed to stating the clear facts...i'd hate to see any legal issues arise. Just my .02 cents bro.


I have never bashed CGC. As I mentioned in my original post, it was a post I did not want to make as I really thought they would stop putting books in the new holder, but they have not. When we 1st started CGC, we were going to open in November of 1999. We could not get the holder correct, so we returned all the books submitted and waited until Jan 2000 to grade books once we got the holder correct. I knew that was the best move at the time for CGC and the hobby.


When you were trying the holder, how many books did you slab to see that the holder was not sufficient? Was it a small or large number? I wonder how many they tried with their new slab or do you think they tried just a few and then released the holder? On their website, I think the announcement for new holder was up for at least a month. That should have been sufficient time to have done quite a few books. Then the question is, did they knowingly release it with knowledge of the issues? I haven't been reasherching this issue and the only info I have is both on the CBCS forum and the CGC form. What percentage would you believe is affected by this new slab?
Post 28 • IP   flag post
President SteveBorock private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc_1
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveBorock
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc_1
Smart move Steve. CGC has not publicly done anything to address this beyond a few posts on the forum. The conversations on Facebook, and outside of their forum has been happening.

I don't get their lack of PR in this issue and with some of the evidence I just saw yesterday with a cracked out book having the same waves as they did inside the case...that's scares the piss out of me for my books. I have a new CGC Iron Man 54 9.4 and it's quite wavy. Ugh!

Just be careful about the level of publicly bashing them as opposed to stating the clear facts...i'd hate to see any legal issues arise. Just my .02 cents bro.


I have never bashed CGC. As I mentioned in my original post, it was a post I did not want to make as I really thought they would stop putting books in the new holder, but they have not. When we 1st started CGC, we were going to open in November of 1999. We could not get the holder correct, so we returned all the books submitted and waited until Jan 2000 to grade books once we got the holder correct. I knew that was the best move at the time for CGC and the hobby.


Thanks Steve. I didn't meant to imply you were bashing them. I just don't think they will see it the same way.

I suggested about a week ago on here and on the CGC forum that had CBCS as an example of shutting the process down to get it right when your plastics issue came up. I also said CGC needs to do this now. Keep grading books but stop the encapsulation process until they can get this sorted out. They haven't and now they have this mess.

What I've seen the past couple of days completely contradicts a conversation I had with Matt Nelson the other day.

I think Matt is also a nice guy who is trying hard. But the cases posted recently are horrific as a comic collector.

I've said it all along that I like both companies and don't want to make some choice of one over the other. But now I am in the same boat as others that I have to choose CBCS solely until CGC really announces this publicly and does something about it.


I really like Matt as well, we have been friends for many years.

People will see things the way they want to see them, I can't help that.....
Post 29 • IP   flag post
Collector The_Curmudgeon private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by roarzola
What percentage would you believe is affected by this new slab?

100% of the comics placed into the new CGC holder are affected.
Perhaps not all of them have sustained damage, but they are all affected.
Post 30 • IP   flag post
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