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Collector Kaleljll private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael

CGC’s new case is a huge disaster. There are optical distortions caused by Newton effects in the plastic that make comics appear as if there is an oily substance in the case.


I have purchased a couple of graded books that have this oily look. Is there any chance that these new cases are doing more harm than good to these books?
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#GLOM DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaleljll
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael

CGC’s new case is a huge disaster. There are optical distortions caused by Newton effects in the plastic that make comics appear as if there is an oily substance in the case.


I have purchased a couple of graded books that have this oily look. Is there any chance that these new cases are doing more harm than good to these books?


The "oily" look is caused by the two different plastics touching and refracting light. This alone will not damage a book. What you need to look out for are the 2nd generation CGC slabs which used mylar sheets instead of an inner well and sandwiched the comic with direct pressure between the outer shell. Those slabs will cause damage.
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Collector Kaleljll private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthLego
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaleljll
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael

CGC’s new case is a huge disaster. There are optical distortions caused by Newton effects in the plastic that make comics appear as if there is an oily substance in the case.


I have purchased a couple of graded books that have this oily look. Is there any chance that these new cases are doing more harm than good to these books?


The "oily" look is caused by the two different plastics touching and refracting light. This alone will not damage a book. What you need to look out for are the 2nd generation CGC slabs which used mylar sheets instead of an inner well and sandwiched the comic with direct pressure between the outer shell. Those slabs will cause damage.


That doesn't sound good at all. I'm new to collecting graded camics. Would you pull them out of the CGC slabs and have them re - graded by CBCS?
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#GLOM DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
@Kaleljll if the CGC slab is the the older generation 1 or the newest generation 3 then I wouldn't worry about it, unless you absolutely just want to get them into CBCS slabs. If it's a generation 2 slab without the inner well I would definitely send it to CBCS (keep it slabbed, they know the best way to open it without risking damage to the book).

You can identify the inner well by looking at the corners of the comic, it will look like the comic is sitting inside a clear plastic tray that's inside the slab. If there is no tray, that's the slab that causes damage.

Personally I would eventually reslab every CGC slab to CBCS just because I prefer CBCS. But that's just me.
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Collector Kaleljll private msg quote post Address this user
Thanks @DarthLego. That's great info and recommendations. I didn't know that CBCS would crack the books out of the old cases too. I am just about ready to send in my first batch of comics to have them slabbed. This is really making the decision to use CBCS easier.
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#GLOM DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
@Kaleljll CBCS will also recognize CGC yellow labels when still in slab and give them a yellow CBCS label, they will however regrade the book, so no guarantee that it stays the same grade. Graders will not know what grade CGC gave it either, so there won't be a biased decision.
Post 156 • IP   flag post
Collector Kaleljll private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthLego
@Kaleljll CBCS will also recognize CGC yellow labels when still in slab and give them a yellow CBCS label, they will however regrade the book, so no guarantee that it stays the same grade. Graders will not know what grade CGC gave it either, so there won't be a biased decision.


Again, thank you. I have been looking into getting some of my more valuable comics graded for a couple of months now and just started buying graded comics so I'm pretty green to all this. My biggest question is why do people use CGC so much, is it just the whole brand recognition thing and does anyone really use PGX at all? It seems like the vast majority of graded comics on ebay are all CGC and some of the books that are PGX or CBCS actually say in the description "(not CGC)"

With all of the negative things like crazy long turn times and the bad slabs and all I don't want to touch anything CGC graded with a 10 foot pole.
Post 157 • IP   flag post
Collector Kaleljll private msg quote post Address this user
@DarthLego was this what you were talking about with the inner well? Do I have this right?
This one has it


And this one doesn't

Post 158 • IP   flag post
#GLOM DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
@Kaleljll You nailed the identification of the inner well.

As far as CGC's popularity on eBay, part of it is brand recognition and that they been around for many years now. CBCS has only been around 3 or 4 years. CBCS has been making huge strides recently in closing that market share gap however. I can already see a huge difference in the number of CBCS slabs on eBay now compared to last year. As far as PGX, anyone who uses them despite their reputation cares only about minimizing grading cost and turn around time. And you can compare eBay prices and see people are not willing to pay the same prices for a PGX book compared to CGC and CBCS.
Post 159 • IP   flag post
Collector Kaleljll private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthLego
@Kaleljll You nailed the identification of the inner well.

As far as CGC's popularity on eBay, part of it is brand recognition and that they been around for many years now. CBCS has only been around 3 or 4 years. CBCS has been making huge strides recently in closing that market share gap however. I can already see a huge difference in the number of CBCS slabs on eBay now compared to last year. As far as PGX, anyone who uses them despite their reputation cares only about minimizing grading cost and turn around time. And you can compare eBay prices and see people are not willing to pay the same prices for a PGX book compared to CGC and CBCS.


Well damn it on the inner well thing, looks like CBCS will have a couple more books from me to crack open and re-slab. So frustrating, I have never even sent a book to any 3rd party grading company and I already do not like CGC.
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Collector Quintessence private msg quote post Address this user
CBCS should bury CGC...
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Collector I_AM_IRON_MAN private msg quote post Address this user
I would like to chime in on this. I have only ever had books graded by CGC. I've never owned a PGX, CBCS, or any other. I have held and examined PGX slabs before and personally I didn't see anything wrong with it grading wise or with the slab. The negatives with PGX are that I hate their label and that it is hard to re-sell them. Now I have, as I said above, used CGC for years. Has it been perfect? NO. But I am a creature of habit. For a long time they were the only game in town and that was that. When I first heard of CBCS I was sceptical, yes, but I noticed CBCS slabs more and more. Around the same time I started having really lousy customer service issues with CGC, and every time I would get mad to the point of trying out CBCS, they would do just enough to keep me in the fold, again creature of habit. At the start I also really liked the look of the CBCS slab in pictures (I have never owned or held one), and for that reason, I was willing to give CBCS a try. Then CGC came out with the new slab and again I was lured back (it was very nice looking). Then the new slabs had MEGA issues and I said this time I am trying out CBCS for sure because the slab issues, coupled with lousy customer service, was enough to drive a man mad. Then CGC corrected all the issues and even I must say improved customer service and I really love their new label/slab it is beautiful. So all the slabs I was getting back/buying were for the most part nice, with the occasional newton ring slab, but nothing major. On my last sub, I got one high dollar book back and the newton rings were the worst I've seen, think frankenslab, and I called to see about CGC fixing it. It took 3 weeks to get a yes and they wouldn't cover shipping which really pissed me off. So now I have gone one step further than ever before and signed up for CBCS forum and am seriously considering my next batch going to CBCS. But again I am a creature of habit. My main issue is that I have never held a CBCS slab so I am still not 100% sure. I want to just buy a mega cheapy to check it out. Second, CBCS is actually more expensive for me, which I had never realised before. Third, I have come to know what to expect from CGC and it is hard to change.

But I am here, and I am trying to investigate everything and I will just have to buy that cheapy slab and examine it to start I guess.
Post 162 • IP   flag post
CBCS Michael private msg quote post Address this user
Great post! Thanks for taking the time. I think a lot of people think the same way. CGC has issues and people think about leaving. Then CGC semi corrects the issue and people are appeased. Also, most people are creatures of habit. I personally was so upset with how I was treated by CGC, I opened my own company so people could have better service, better slabs, and an overall better experience. I do have one question. Where is CGC cheaper? We charge less for grading and less for shipping plus do not charge submission fees (a big savings if there is more than one tier), or grader notes. When I looked at every scenario and total cost from door to door, CBCS always came up cheaper. If I'm missing something, I'd like to correct it. I hope you make the change. From my discussions with people, they are very happy with CBCS. Again, thank you for posting.
Post 163 • IP   flag post
#GLOM DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
@Michael Since you're here, can we please put a fire underneath getting magazine sized slabs? That is number one on my want list.
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Collector I_AM_IRON_MAN private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael
Great post! Thanks for taking the time. I think a lot of people think the same way. CGC has issues and people think about leaving. Then CGC semi corrects the issue and people are appeased. Also, most people are creatures of habit. I personally was so upset with how I was treated by CGC, I opened my own company so people could have better service, better slabs, and an overall better experience. I do have one question. Where is CGC cheaper? We charge less for grading and less for shipping plus do not charge submission fees (a big savings if there is more than one tier), or grader notes. When I looked at every scenario and total cost from door to door, CBCS always came up cheaper. If I'm missing something, I'd like to correct it. I hope you make the change. From my discussions with people, they are very happy with CBCS. Again, thank you for posting.


Thanks for sharing!

Well to answer the question on price, it would cost 15$ for one who has the Elite membership to grade a modern at CGC. From what I am reading here, it is 16$ with membership. People complain a lot about the shipping at CGC, but they don;t understand how it works and CGC doesn't really offer up the information. If you do not input a Fedex account then shipping is really expensive, but if you input a Fedex account you're only charged weight. Pre-75 is 21.25 (minimum 15 book) with Elite at CGC up to 200$, here it is 27$ as a member. Am I reading something wrong?
Post 165 • IP   flag post
CBCS Michael private msg quote post Address this user
The competition does a really great job of having hidden costs. There is a $5 per submission fee. There is a higher shipping fee. Grader notes are not truly free. Whenever I tested it by filling out a CGC form and filling out the same comics on a CBCS form, the total costs were less on the CBCS form. But yes, if you are looking at $15 vs $16 and none of the other costs, then it would appear that CGC is less.
Post 166 • IP   flag post
CBCS Michael private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthLego
@Michael Since you're here, can we please put a fire underneath getting magazine sized slabs? That is number one on my want list.


We have the Raw Grade for magazines now. We are working on magazine sizes for regular slabs. The inhibiting factor is the $75K cost of the injection mold. It will happen. Just a matter of time. Tell everyone to send in more books for now .
Post 167 • IP   flag post
#GLOM DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthLego
@Michael Since you're here, can we please put a fire underneath getting magazine sized slabs? That is number one on my want list.


We have the Raw Grade for magazines now. We are working on magazine sizes for regular slabs. The inhibiting factor is the $75K cost of the injection mold. It will happen. Just a matter of time. Tell everyone to send in more books for now .


Thanks, it helps knowing just exactly what the obstacle is. Now that we know, it softens up the wait a bit. Knowing that every submission will help reach the goal is good motivation too.
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Collector esaravo private msg quote post Address this user
@Michael - Nice to see you on the forums again. Your input is always welcome and shows the level of commitment of CBCS to get to know their customers and their concerns. The issue of lower CGC costs for pre-1975 orders of 15 or more comics was mentioned previously on one of these threads a month or so ago. Even with the $5 CGC submission fee, you can get about 19 of those comics graded at CGC for the price of 15 at CBCS. I believe Steve said he would bring that issue (and a few others that were discussed) up at a future meeting at CBCS. Maybe it hasn't been discussed yet.
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Longbox Legend JWKyle private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael
The competition does a really great job of having hidden costs. There is a $5 per submission fee. There is a higher shipping fee. Grader notes are not truly free. Whenever I tested it by filling out a CGC form and filling out the same comics on a CBCS form, the total costs were less on the CBCS form. But yes, if you are looking at $15 vs $16 and none of the other costs, then it would appear that CGC is less.
Micheal first off I really like that competition was brought into the comic book grading business. I started this thread in these forums and broke down the costs. CGC does do fedex shipping and you guys just raised your shipping so that is a wash. Please tell me if I'm missing something in this thread.

http://forum.cbcscomics.com/topic/2140/page/1/open-letter-to-cbcs/#1
Post 170 • IP   flag post
CBCS Michael private msg quote post Address this user
Good thoughts. What would be your proposal specifically? In the meantime if anyone has a collection and wants a discount, call. Our web site is a completely custom site and any change is a big deal. Right now we are working on internal reporting, registry, census, and a reward system. We just fixed the gallery and it has more updates coming. The programmer complains that when he is 60% done, he gets a whole new project. We have a lot of things 60% done. If someone has a collection of 15 or 30 or more comics, we are happy to discuss a discount until we can get programming done. The registry is a monster to program with points for every comic in existence. And we will retro points.
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#GLOM DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
Please let your programmer focus on one task at a time, good HTML Code is an art form. Let the man get some work done.
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Collector I_AM_IRON_MAN private msg quote post Address this user
Personally, I think a noticeable price difference with a quality product would be the incentive for a lot of disgruntled CGC customers to make the switch. As it is right now, where is the incentive?
Post 173 • IP   flag post
#GLOM DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
BTW, bulk discounts was something we asked Steve to look into a few weeks ago. Bulk discounts could go a long way, because $16 isn't much, but $16 x 10, 20, 30 adds up quickly.
Post 174 • IP   flag post
Collector Kaleljll private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthLego
BTW, bulk discounts was something we asked Steve to look into a few weeks ago. Bulk discounts could go a long way, because $16 isn't much, but $16 x 10, 20, 30 adds up quickly.


That would be great
Post 175 • IP   flag post
Longbox Legend JWKyle private msg quote post Address this user
I don't have a business plan for this but let me lay it out this way. Instead of me sending these to CGC to get a 22.83 per book to grade fee. I sent these to you guys and you charge me $22-$23 dollars a book to grade them instead of the $27.00 per book. This is the kind of books I'm talking about. Even having a conversation about it is a step in the right direction


Post 176 • IP   flag post
CBCS Michael private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by I_AM_IRON_MAN
Personally, I think a noticeable price difference with a quality product would be the incentive for a lot of disgruntled CGC customers to make the switch. As it is right now, where is the incentive?


I hope part of the incentive is the corporate culture we have. If we had a plastics issue, we would not deny it and then delete a huge post. When we did have a plastics problem, we shut down and fixed it. We would never knowingly send out a comic book in an inferior case that was accused of causing damage. Believe me, if we could do it for a lot less, we would. I know price is important. For now, I will look into the bulk pricing issue, give discounts to people who have larger orders, and eventually get the programming done.
Post 177 • IP   flag post
CBCS Michael private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWKyle
I don't have a business plan for this but let me lay it out this way. Instead of me sending these to CGC to get a 22.83 per book to grade fee. I sent these to you guys and you charge me $22-$23 dollars a book to grade them instead of the $27.00 per book. This is the kind of books I'm talking about. Even having a conversation about it is a step in the right direction




Until we can get programming done, call if you have an order like this.
Post 178 • IP   flag post
Longbox Legend JWKyle private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWKyle
I don't have a business plan for this but let me lay it out this way. Instead of me sending these to CGC to get a 22.83 per book to grade fee. I sent these to you guys and you charge me $22-$23 dollars a book to grade them instead of the $27.00 per book. This is the kind of books I'm talking about. Even having a conversation about it is a step in the right direction




Until we can get programming done, call if you have an order like this.
I will start getting something ready and will give you a call in a couple of weeks.
Post 179 • IP   flag post
#GLOM DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
@Michael Oh, I don't know if you have seen this suggestion, but a few weeks ago I made a suggestion that you guys add the feature to our dashboard to allow us to save drafts of invoices without going to final checkout. This would allow us to put together large orders over time and across multiple computers.
Post 180 • IP   flag post
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