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Comics Bronze AgeGrading Help NeededQuestions

Foxing vs. Staining - what do you think?3450

Collector Tedsaid private msg quote post Address this user
I just received a book (from eBay) that did not have foxing disclosed. (Nor did it show up in the picture.) It may still be a good deal, as I'm not sure how strict the grading is on foxing. Overstreet says foxing is allowed up to 9.4, with some gradients of descriptions. E.g., for 9.4 "light foxing" is allowed; 9.2 has "minor foxing that does not distract from the beauty of the book" is allowed. For 9.0 it is "very minor foxing," and 8.0 is "minor foxing."

Anyway, it's noticeable and detracts, but I guess it is minor, without (perhaps) being "very minor." (See pictures.) I'm thinking this will be an 8.0 or maybe 8.5 after cleaning and pressing ... the corners are sharp and pages OW/W I think, but the damn foxing. (Plus a few very minor stress lines on the spine.)

Cleaning doesn't help foxing at all, right? Or just a little bit? It may be the comic is a bit dirty too, and that makes the foxing look worse. (It's a bit worse than it appears in the pics.) Or maybe it's all dirt? What do you guys think? I think it is probably foxing (or mostly foxing) on the front, and mostly dirt on the back, but it's hard to tell.

Joe, any expert opinion on this one? It will be coming your way very soon. :-)








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Longbox Legend JWKyle private msg quote post Address this user
For a Marvel Spotlight 5 from 1972 that seems like some heavy foxing. I would be more forgiving on a golden age book with foxing like this but for a bronze age book I could see it taking a harder hit in the grade just because most books from the 70's don't have heavy foxing.
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Collector keefriffhards private msg quote post Address this user
Ah... definition online is. "Foxing is an age-related process of deterioration that causes spots and browning on old paper documents such as books, postage stamps and certificates. The name may derive from the fox-like reddish-brown color of the stains, or the rust chemical ferric oxide which may be involved."

I don't want it on Silver Age books, but would allow for Golden Age personally...
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COLLECTOR shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user
Damn that's heavier than some of the stuff on my GA books. Return the book if you can. I hope you didnt pay more than 7.0 money for it 😬
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Collector Tedsaid private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by shrewbeer
Damn that's heavier than some of the stuff on my GA books. Return the book if you can. I hope you didnt pay more than 7.0 money for it 😬

Yeah, that's what I'm afraid of. I think I could return it without a problem ... he said "the front cover is flawless" in the description. I've bought from this guy before, and he clearly doesn't know what foxing is (or recognize it) ... most of his books have been great, but a couple had this. (He got all these bronze age comics from his uncle, who just hoarded them, left 'em in stacks around the house. Some are fantastic condition. His uncle never read any of them.)

Personally, I'm in the "hate foxing" camp, and would not have bought it if I'd known. I just don't know what the grading hit is on this, or the relative gradients, since I always avoid it.

I paid a bit more than 7.0, which is why I'm so annoyed. Thought it might be 9.0 with a press/clean (and would be, at least, without this). Would have been a good deal.
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Collector Thanatos private msg quote post Address this user
If you didn't want a full return, perhaps you could get the seller to refund a percentage of the price you paid. Regardless, sorry to hear about this book man. A damn shame.
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Collector DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user
There isn't anything you can do for foxing.
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Collector Tedsaid private msg quote post Address this user
Hey, Joe @CFP_Comics ... any opinion on this one?
Post 8 • IP   flag post
COLLECTOR shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrWatson
There isn't anything you can do for foxing.


👆🏻

Joe has said that to me as well. Sorry @Tedsaid , unless it's somehow just surface dirt but thats a longshot considering the pics. 😬


Im in the market for a high grade of that book as well, on the bright side your quest is not over; happy hunting!
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Collector KingNampa private msg quote post Address this user
I avoid foxing whenever possible. Just another thing to worry about. Depending on the humidity where you live the foxing could get worse. Stains no big deal to me. Like a coffee mug stain on back cover or something. Won't get worse than it is.
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Collector verbogyrater private msg quote post Address this user
Refund time definitely. Most Ebay sellers need to fess up and pay for their exaggerated grades.
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Collector andy49 private msg quote post Address this user
I'd do the refund thing and buy a clean one, you don't want to lie awake at night thinking about that book
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Collector keefriffhards private msg quote post Address this user
I have decided to stay away from foxing, mold, nail polish, paint etc.. anything that could keep a chemical reaction occurring inside my slab... also sort of sticking with Silver Age now, since Golden Age showing a little bit too much of it's age...
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Collector keefriffhards private msg quote post Address this user

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COLLECTOR CFP_Comics private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedsaid
Hey, Joe @CFP_Comics ... any opinion on this one?


If it is foxing, best thing would be to return it. Whoever comes up with the formula to remove foxing will be a billionaire.

Foxing is weird in that it affects books differently and to varying degrees. I have seen moderns in long boxes that were covered in foxing, and the book next to it was pristine. Unfortunately there is no rhyme or reason to which books get it and how severe, but I will assume it does have to do with storage conditions and what is present in the paper for each run of the book.
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Collector Tedsaid private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by CFP_Comics
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedsaid
Hey, Joe @CFP_Comics ... any opinion on this one?

If it is foxing, best thing would be to return it. Whoever comes up with the formula to remove foxing will be a billionaire.

Foxing is weird in that it affects books differently and to varying degrees. I have seen moderns in long boxes that were covered in foxing, and the book next to it was pristine. Unfortunately there is no rhyme or reason to which books get it and how severe, but I will assume it does have to do with storage conditions and what is present in the paper for each run of the book.

Thanks, Joe. And thanks everyone for the feedback. I think I will return it. Darnit.
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Collector IronMan private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by CFP_Comics
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedsaid
Hey, Joe @CFP_Comics ... any opinion on this one?


If it is foxing, best thing would be to return it. Whoever comes up with the formula to remove foxing will be a billionaire.

Foxing is weird in that it affects books differently and to varying degrees. I have seen moderns in long boxes that were covered in foxing, and the book next to it was pristine. Unfortunately there is no rhyme or reason to which books get it and how severe, but I will assume it does have to do with storage conditions and what is present in the paper for each run of the book.


Of interest is researchers have determined that foxing of paper can have several causes - separate or working together. Iron oxides as impurities in the paper is the most common cause. But various molds can cause foxing as well. And it's possible that the inks used in printing might contribute.

Environmental factors matter, as higher levels of humidity encourage mold growth and the oxidation of trace amounts of iron oxides.

As for the amount of foxing on the book in question, I don't think it's fair to call it heavy, but it is for sure more than a small amount. The real problem grade and value wise is that foxing is - generally speaking - much better tolerated by collectors on Golden Age books. This is a Bronze Age key so the grade and collector desirability will suffer a bit more.

CGC and CBCS have both - IMHO - become more strict on foxing, tanning and stains the past year.
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Collector IronMan private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by keefriffhards



Yeah....
You should just send that to me so you don't have to look at it..
Post 18 • IP   flag post
Collector KingNampa private msg quote post Address this user
Don't you wish you had the Eye of Agamotto? Buy a really crappy single page from an Action Comics #1 or a Graded .5 Amazing Fantasy #15 and then use the EYE to bring it back to 9.8. Muhahaha...


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