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Hulk 180 or 181?9936

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Collector 14.3K	14.3K Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 3
	Since the art of comic storytelling from the sixties and seventies relied so heavily on that closing panel cliffhanger to create a need to buy the next issue, its rather common out there. I don't have deeply set feelings one way or another, but I do wish it was more consistently observed....i.e x men 266 is in no way Gambits first appearance, but look at what the book brings. I run into Newbs in the hobby who consider it a grail, unaware blissfully it is not his first. Same thing for Ms. Marvel and the mess of Mystiques first full and cameo appearances. Jimmy Olsen is a classic case of cameo confusion given 134..single panel....135 single panel..forever people 1 first full appearance, but then his 2nd full appearance is new gods 2. There should be a thread for all the cameo/following issue full appearance occurrences!
	6 years ago	Post 51 • IP flag post

Thank you sir. May I have another?

26.14K

Siggy private msg quote post Address this user

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Jakejewls
2nd appearance of wolverine is #182 not giant size xmen lol folks looks like we have a dalema lol

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jakejewls
Based off of the #180 as a 1st appearance #182 is actually 3rd appearance so gsx1 is 4th lol if you go off of just the character excluding cameo and full appearance.

Now you got it

No need for dilemma or anything else- If value (including demand) were to somehow completely be removed from the hobby while the number of copies and owners remain the same, I doubt the 180/181 debate would be as it is.

I'm not saying EVERYONE is in it for the money, but if NO ONE were...

IMO

6 years ago

PLOD 2.6K	2.6K theCapraAegagrus private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 3
	People -should- be in it for the art form - not money. There are more tried and true, and lucrative, ways of investing.
	6 years ago	Post 53 • IP flag post

Collector 14.3K	14.3K Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 9
	People should do comics for any reason they choose, the very nature of a free country. People shouldn't try to impose their own values on others...for any reason in a hobby.
	6 years ago	Post 54 • IP flag post

-Our Odin- Rest in Peace 39.35K	39.35K Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 11
	After roughly 7 hours on lock down, let's try to play nice from here on out. Calling someone ignorant or lacking self-awareness isn't exactly civil discussion. Nor is it anything that merits warnings. But when a post gets reported and it looks like things could get out of hand, a cooling off period may be appropriate. Remember, you always have the option of not commenting.
	6 years ago	Post 55 • IP flag post

Collector 14.75K	14.75K X51 private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	I apologize in advance and know this may not be nice, but I have 2 copies of #181. I want to re-scan the one in better condition because the colors look wrong. I'm not hung up on having super high grade, so both of these are completely adequate for me.
	6 years ago	Post 56 • IP flag post

I've spent years perfecting my brand of assholery. 60.2K	60.2K DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by Jesse_O Remember, you always have the option of not commenting.
	6 years ago	Post 57 • IP flag post

Collector 3.04K	3.04K moodswing private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 1
	I think cameos should be 1st appearances. The entire full appearance thing makes no sense. As far as wolverine's appearances. 1st cameo 180 2nd full appearance 181 3rd cameo appearance 182 4th GSX 1 Pretty sure that is his first 4 comic appearances.
	6 years ago	Post 58 • IP flag post

past performance is no guarantee of future actions. 31.66K	31.66K KatKomics private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by moodswing I think cameos should be 1st appearances. The entire full appearance thing makes no sense. As far as wolverine's appearances. 1st cameo 180 2nd full appearance 181 3rd cameo appearance 182 4th GSX 1 Pretty sure that is his first 4 comic appearances. That's a whole other bag of cats!!! The most expensive appearance of Darkseid for instance is barely a cameo....at least wolvies cameo had hos full body!!!
	6 years ago	Post 59 • IP flag post

Collector 14.3K	14.3K Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by moodswing I think cameos should be 1st appearances. The entire full appearance thing makes no sense. As far as wolverine's appearances. 1st cameo 180 2nd full appearance 181 3rd cameo appearance 182 4th GSX 1 Pretty sure that is his first 4 comic appearances. You are correct in what you are saying but both grading houses, and even the Overstreet recognize Giant size x men 1 as his 2nd full appearance and I am going to go with the consensus of the market .
	6 years ago	Post 60 • IP flag post

Collector 3.04K	3.04K moodswing private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 3
	@Darkseid_of_town Yeah, 1 and 3 would be considered "cameo" appearances.
	6 years ago	Post 61 • IP flag post

I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this. 80.15K	80.15K GAC private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 1
	There is no debate or dispute as to which comic is Wolverines 1st appearance. It is universally understood that it is Hulk 180. this is Wolverine in issue 180 But the market has decided that Hulk 181...(his 1st full appearance, 180 is considered a cameo) is the money book. Hulk 182 is a cameo appearance and Giant Size X-men 1 is considered his 2nd full appearance.
	6 years ago	Post 62 • IP flag post

Collector 14.75K	14.75K X51 private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Yeah, but #184 is the one that prints a letter suggesting that Marvel make him an X-Men character. Heh heh!
	6 years ago	Post 63 • IP flag post

I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this. 80.15K	80.15K GAC private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by X51 Yeah, but #184 is the one that prints a letter suggesting that Marvel make him an X-Men character. Heh heh! Is that true?
	6 years ago	Post 64 • IP flag post

Collector 14.75K	14.75K X51 private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 3
	Quote: Originally Posted by GAC Quote: Originally Posted by X51 Yeah, but #184 is the one that prints a letter suggesting that Marvel make him an X-Men character. Heh heh! Is that true? I'm working fully off of my memory and I haven't opened the comic in roughly 23 years, but to the best of my knowledge it's a definitive yes. I believe it's the issue where his shadow attacked him. A pre-hero era monster character tie-in.
	6 years ago	Post 65 • IP flag post

I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this. 80.15K	80.15K GAC private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by X51 Quote: Originally Posted by GAC Quote: Originally Posted by X51 Yeah, but #184 is the one that prints a letter suggesting that Marvel make him an X-Men character. Heh heh! Is that true? I'm working fully off of my memory and I haven't opened the comic in roughly 23 years, but to the best of my knowledge it's a definitive yes. I believe it's the issue where his shadow attacked him. A pre-hero era monster character tie-in. So cool!!!
	6 years ago	Post 66 • IP flag post

Collector 14.75K	14.75K X51 private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 3
	Quote: Originally Posted by GAC Quote: Originally Posted by X51 Quote: Originally Posted by GAC Quote: Originally Posted by X51 Yeah, but #184 is the one that prints a letter suggesting that Marvel make him an X-Men character. Heh heh! Is that true? I'm working fully off of my memory and I haven't opened the comic in roughly 23 years, but to the best of my knowledge it's a definitive yes. I believe it's the issue where his shadow attacked him. A pre-hero era monster character tie-in. So cool!!! I thought so.
	6 years ago	Post 67 • IP flag post

Forum Crier 55.43K	55.43K OGJackster private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Does anyone know what gocollect has the FMV of CGC Universal 4.0 of #180?
	6 years ago	Post 68 • IP flag post

I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this. 80.15K	80.15K GAC private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 1
	Quote: Originally Posted by OGJackster Does anyone know what gocollect has the FMV of CGC Universal 4.0 of #180? $325 Hulk 180 4.0
	6 years ago	Post 69 • IP flag post

Forum Crier 55.43K	55.43K OGJackster private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 1
	@GAC Thanks
	6 years ago	Post 70 • IP flag post

I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this. 80.15K	80.15K GAC private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Hulk 180 GoCollect Data
	6 years ago	Post 71 • IP flag post

Masculinity takes a holiday. 37.37K	37.37K EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 1
	Here's a really simple test: If you, as a reader of comics, became interested in Wolverine stories before they had gained value...which would you pull from the cheap comic bin? 180? of course not, you would pull 181.
	6 years ago	Post 72 • IP flag post

I’m Kinda Married To A Celebrity. 18.86K	18.86K 00slim private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 1
	I think 180 is appropriately labeled as a cameo. It’s one panel.
	6 years ago	Post 73 • IP flag post

I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this. 80.15K	80.15K GAC private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Hulk 181 GoCollect Data
	6 years ago	Post 74 • IP flag post

Masculinity takes a holiday. 37.37K	37.37K EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by Darkseid_of_town Originally Posted by EbaySeller Quote: Originally Posted by Darkseid_of_town Just glancing at the CGC census it shows well over 4,000 copies of 180 and over 12,000 copies of 181....suggestive that if the price levels were realized for 180 that have been seen for 181, it too would reach a much higher census figure. Exactly correct. My point was that the ratio of available Jimmy Olsen 134 to Forever People 1 is probably very different than the ratio of Hulk 180 to Hulk 181 (which is most likely 1 to 1). I'm thinking this explains why a single panel appearance in Jimmy Olsen has a higher market value than the full first appearance in Forever People. At a local convention I might find 3-4 copies of JO 134 vs 30-40 copies of Forever People 1. I am not so sure of those conclusions..the CGC census has 1371 Jimmy Olsen 134, vs 1420 copies of Forever people The total graded is misleading because JO 134 has a much higher FMV and is more likely to be graded regardless of condition. Forever People is less likely to get graded in mid to lower grades, only worth about $70 in 5.0. A better measurement would be to compare the high-grade numbers (9.4-9.8). There you have 318 forever people to only 83 JO, about a 3.5 to 1 ratio. This ratio would make sense only if Forever People were the higher value book. When you factor in that Forever People 1 has only about 40% the FMV of JO 134, it's now reasonable to assume that Forever People 1 might be 5 to 7 times more common than JO 134. I guessed 10x earlier, but maybe 5x-7x is more accurate.
	6 years ago	Post 75 • IP flag post

Collector 14.3K	14.3K Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by EbaySeller Quote: Originally Posted by Darkseid_of_town Originally Posted by EbaySeller Quote: Originally Posted by Darkseid_of_town Just glancing at the CGC census it shows well over 4,000 copies of 180 and over 12,000 copies of 181....suggestive that if the price levels were realized for 180 that have been seen for 181, it too would reach a much higher census figure. Exactly correct. My point was that the ratio of available Jimmy Olsen 134 to Forever People 1 is probably very different than the ratio of Hulk 180 to Hulk 181 (which is most likely 1 to 1). I'm thinking this explains why a single panel appearance in Jimmy Olsen has a higher market value than the full first appearance in Forever People. At a local convention I might find 3-4 copies of JO 134 vs 30-40 copies of Forever People 1. I am not so sure of those conclusions..the CGC census has 1371 Jimmy Olsen 134, vs 1420 copies of Forever people The total graded is misleading because JO 134 has a much higher FMV and is more likely to be graded regardless of condition. Forever People is less likely to get graded in mid to lower grades, only worth about $70 in 5.0. A better measurement would be to compare the high-grade numbers (9.4-9.8). There you have 318 forever people to only 83 JO, about a 3.5 to 1 ratio. This ratio would make sense only if Forever People were the higher value book. When you factor in that Forever People 1 has only about 40% the FMV of JO 134, it's now reasonable to assume that Forever People 1 might be 5 to 7 times more common than JO 134. I guessed 10x earlier, but maybe 5x-7x is more accurate. or the statistics could also be a relic of comparing a dark cover vs a white cover comic in high vs low grading which puts you firmly back at...less Jimmy Olsen's than Forever people 1 By your own admission if JO has a higher market value meaning more would be graded and yet there are still less known copies I would have to say...there ya go Why cherry pick the stats to attempt a different outcome
	6 years ago	Post 76 • IP flag post

Masculinity takes a holiday. 37.37K	37.37K EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by Darkseid_of_town or the statistics could also be a relic of comparing a dark cover vs a white cover comic in high vs low grading which puts you firmly back at...less Jimmy Olsen's than Forever people 1 By your own admission if JO has a higher market value meaning more would be graded and yet there are still less known copies I would have to say...there ya go Why cherry pick the stats to attempt a different outcome Now I'm totally confused. Are you agreeing with me or disagreeing?
	6 years ago	Post 77 • IP flag post

I'd like to say I still turned out alright, but that would be a lie. 29.48K	29.48K flanders private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 3
	Be careful with that Gocollect data, the prices listed aren't accurate. If you have a subscription and click the actual sales prices under each grade, often times you'll see several recent sales substantially lower than the listed price and you won't be able to find a single sale that matches the Gocollect estimated price.
	6 years ago	Post 78 • IP flag post

Collector 14.3K	14.3K Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by EbaySeller Quote: Originally Posted by Darkseid_of_town or the statistics could also be a relic of comparing a dark cover vs a white cover comic in high vs low grading which puts you firmly back at...less Jimmy Olsen's than Forever people 1 By your own admission if JO has a higher market value meaning more would be graded and yet there are still less known copies I would have to say...there ya go Why cherry pick the stats to attempt a different outcome Now I'm totally confused. Are you agreeing with me or disagreeing? well yes and no...it's a passive aggressive thing
	6 years ago	Post 79 • IP flag post

Why just the women? I like bears. 3.44K	3.44K Gaard private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by flanders Be careful with that Gocollect data, the prices listed aren't accurate. If you have a subscription and click the actual sales prices under each grade, often times you'll see several recent sales substantially lower than the listed price and you won't be able to find a single sale that matches the Gocollect estimated price. Yep. I learned that the hard way.
	6 years ago	Post 80 • IP flag post

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