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MCU next phase...Am I the only skeptic?9902

Masculinity takes a holiday. EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user
The MCU was anchored by long successful heroes Iron Man, Captain America, Hulk, Spider-man, etc. They successfully layered in some B-list heroes like Guardians, Hawkeye, Black Widow, Falcon, War Machine mostly with great writing and exceptional casting.

The next phase promises Lady Thor, gay Valkerie, Blade, Kung-Fu what's his name and Eternals. None of this stuff has the 40-60 year history of success that the heroes from the previous phase have. Is it realistic to believe that the next phase will have the mass market appeal of the first?
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Collector BrashSmurf private msg quote post Address this user
I'll catch the next deadpool movie and the rest i'll pass on
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Suck it up, buttercup!! KatKomics private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by EbaySeller
The MCU was anchored by long successful heroes Iron Man, Captain America, Hulk, Spider-man, etc. They successfully layered in some B-list heroes like Guardians, Hawkeye, Black Widow, Falcon, War Machine mostly with great writing and exceptional casting.

The next phase promises Lady Thor, gay Valkerie, Blade, Kung-Fu what's his name and Eternals. None of this stuff has the 40-60 year history of success that the heroes from the previous phase have. Is it realistic to believe that the next phase will have the mass market appeal of the first?


I think they will do just fine - lets remember that many people and kids who saw the last phase only know those characters from the movies and had no idea which were A, B or C grade comics - I know my 11yr old didn't. Comics just aren't a thing for this generation what with $5 and up per book. $.50 of $.75 for a comic when I was under 10 yrs old in the 80's was a treat for a kid - an easy ask that a parent would be ok with paying for and they were in corner stores - if a kid asks for a comic or 2 and a parent is not into comics will they shell out the money and go to a specialty store that is likely a few towns away????
Only thing audiences will know this time round is that these are "Marvel" movies and from that alone they will have an expectation - as long as there is good writing and acting and they keep basically to the format they created they will do just fine.
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Collector daywalker private msg quote post Address this user
@KatKomics I agree with Kat! As long as there is good writing and acting they will succeed! X-men and Fantastic Four are A listers and have been around for just as long as the Avengers characters and look how those movies turned out.
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Collector Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user
Both Blade and the Eternals have at least 40 years of history ...and the series' marvel has lined up for television alongside those characters holds many more...She Hulk, Loki, Wanda and Vision etc.

I think if anything the public is fatigued with the Iron man, Thor, Hulk , Cap storylines and wants something new and perhaps unknown..

Marvel Probably stretched out this first set of characters too long, and should have trimmed a few years off the phase......
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I had no way of knowing that 9.8 graded copies signed by Adam Hughes weren't what you were looking for. drchaos private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkseid_of_town


I think if anything the public is fatigued with the Iron man, Thor, Hulk , Cap storylines and wants something new and perhaps unknown..


You will miss them when they are gone.
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Collector Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user
How can they be fine when I have thousands of comics.and copies of all their movies....I see it as an all that plus more coming scenario
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He sounds like a vegan who wants real mayonnaise to be vegan friendly. Instant_Subtitles private msg quote post Address this user
Here is what I am seeing:

- "Lady Thor" is a filler story explaining why Thor Odinson was suddenly single in Thor: Ragnarock. So just like Black Widow, this is just a filler story that covers any unanswered questions fans have.

- Valkyrie, Shang-Chi, and The Eternals are just characters that not many know about. And with the failing on how they executed The Inhumans on TV, The Eternals is something that can help them have more time before the X-Men stuff is ready.

- Blade is a fan favorite and might help convince them to do more horror-based MCU films. Which I welcome since I prefer a Werewolf-By-Night film over another Captain America film these days.

Now if you don't mind... I am hoping to hear them announce a Rick Jones/Joe Fixit style Hulk film as being part of their future phases.
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Collector Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user
I have a hunch Black widow is not a filler story and will serve to launch it's own set of movies
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It was a one trick pony show but always hilarious. GAC private msg quote post Address this user
I think those movies succeeded largely because of the quality of the films....Iron Man was definitly a "B" list superhero before his 1st film (clearly he's an A leaguer now), same with GOTG, Antman and Wasp, Dr. Strange, Ms. Marvel and Black Panther. I consider these characters "B" list to the General Audience...to comic people, several would be A list. But in order for these movies to be as successful as they were/needed to be, they had to crossover to the mainstream audience. Phase 1 thru 4 was rife with challenges on making sure the General Audience would be interested..and they succeeded...as they will with this new phase too.
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If the viagra is working you should be well over a 9.8. xkonk private msg quote post Address this user
I think at this point Marvel has earned the benefit of the doubt. No one knew who the Guardians of the Galaxy were and probably very few people knew about Ant-Man. But you were already 9 movies deep at that point, they were solid, entertaining movies, and it worked out just fine. People will see the new ones because it's Marvel and as long as the quality is there, they will do fine. The question is really just if they are Ant-Man popular or Black Panther popular.

Side note: the first two Blade movies in the Snipes run were great. There's no reason to think Blade can't be a good movie.
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Joined The Club Steverogers11 private msg quote post Address this user
Don’t worry they still will make billions. Superhero movies are must see now
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Collector X51 private msg quote post Address this user
None of the schedule appeals to me.
Women like Robert Downey Jr. and Chris Hemsworth. Creating more women superheroes isn't going to increase the number of women watching the movies. They'd rather see confident men.
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Collector Hcanes private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by X51
None of the schedule appeals to me.
Women like Robert Downey Jr. and Chris Hemsworth. Creating more women superheroes isn't going to increase the number of women watching the movies. They'd rather see confident men.


All this time I thought you were a man and not a woman.
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Collector X51 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hcanes
Quote:
Originally Posted by X51
None of the schedule appeals to me.
Women like Robert Downey Jr. and Chris Hemsworth. Creating more women superheroes isn't going to increase the number of women watching the movies. They'd rather see confident men.


All this time I thought you were a man and not a woman.


I'm all man, but I know women. I am so incredibly masculine that other men get confused and think they are women when they see me.

I've talked to women who care nothing about superheroes, but they'll go see a Thor or Iron Man movie for the beefcake.
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Collector Hcanes private msg quote post Address this user
It just comes off a tad chauvinistic to reduce what women want in a movie down to antiquated stereotypes.

Regardless how one might feel about Captain Marvel, it did better box office numbers than the beef cake solos movies. This was a movie geared to geared to the women demographic.
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I'm good with splotches. Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user
This will be a critical time frame for the MCU.
They could "Jump the Shark" where it's re-hash. OR People could lose interest at the massive amount of level that they just experienced. Or they keep it fresh and it continues at a super high level of quality and revenue

This will be interesting.

My prediction - a slow, and not necessarily evident downspin from an immediate standpoint. But it will be evident by the end of this new phase when the dollars are counted.
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Collector X51 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hcanes
It just comes off a tad chauvinistic to reduce what women want in a movie down to antiquated stereotypes.

Regardless how one might feel about Captain Marvel, it did better box office numbers than the beef cake solos movies. This was a movie geared to geared to the women demographic.


I got my perspective from women directly. It's not something I'm imagining or fabricating. It's from their own mouths. I'm just the messenger. Feel free to reload. I can take it.

Subjectively speaking, I know of no women that spoke of wanting to see Captain Marvel.

The entire Marvel Cinematic Universe has been pulling in viewers because it has a soap opera nature to it and all the movies are connected. Comparing a later Marvel movie to an earlier movie is like comparing a sapling to a full grown tree. The magnitude of it all has grown. None of it would have happened without them ALL being a success.

I will reiterate what I've said before. No one standing at the ticket booth buying the ticket before the movie knows whether that movie will be good or bad. They don't know until they sat through the actual 2hr movie. That means the box office success of the movie is based upon their preconceived hypothesis. That hypothesis is based upon the movies they had seen already. Captain Marvel did well because consumers are trusting the brand. It's not because she's a role model for women. That brand previously included beefcake for women.

My opinion is that they are screwing things up. I was disappointed in Captain Marvel and Avengers:Endgame. As a result, I've lost a desire to see movies for the past few months. I saw the most recent John Wick movie, but that was it. I saw it 3 weeks after it's release date. I was in no rush. Whether a movie is good or bad will not affect the brand until after it's been watched. You can't say Captain Marvel was a bigger financial success, because it may have hurt all the future movies going forward. You can look at a snapshot of the box office numbers, but that's not adequate for looking at the bigger potential the "Marvel Universe" can achieve.
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Collector Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user
I also work with several women and my experience was completely different. They loved Captain Marvel and at least a few found her more appealing than the typical beefcake served up normally
I watched a pair of women get in a shoving match at Wal Mart over the last copy in the rack of Captain Marvel and also watched woman after woman purchase same movie.
Subjectively speaking your experiences do not match my own
Also subjectively speaking I see or hear many people who are not comic book types but will buy a marvel movie now and then. They draw no connections from one to another be it iron Man 1 and Guardians of the Galaxy 2...they could care less and treat each movie as a unique entity .This means those seperate movies do help set their own paths for success.
You stated noone knows a movie will be good or.not till they sit through it but then suggest that preconceived hypothesis determines they like the movie.How does that even start to be logical? I am guessing you were trying to imply they have been preconditioned to decide if they like the movie before viewing but even then people don't follow the script.
Your argument is Captain marvel could also hurt future box office fails because ...yes it could also HELP future box office and considering that following it's release marvel then scored the most successful motion picture in history right? Suggesting it could hurt fails in that it could also HELP
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Masculinity takes a holiday. EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user
I'm chuckling at the visual of comic book guys arguing over what Women want. Could be a Big Bang storyline. Mostly people are sheep. Men sheep and women sheep. A few leaders decide what they want and the rest go along with it.

Every day I drive past a sign that says "Think Global, buy Local". I wonder if I am the only person who recognizes that it drips with Irony. If I'm thinking global, why would I care about buying local? And if I'm dedicated to buying local, how can I be thinking global?

STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering, Math) education was introduced to get more young girls out of the Arts and into the Sciences. Instead of argue against it, the Arts side came up with STEAM (adding Arts back into the mix), and no one seems to recognize the whole plan has been under-mined and we have returned to square one by adding that letter "A". They just think it's a STEAM education (same as STEM right?), so it must be good for girls. But STEAM is basically Science, Technology, Engineering, Math, and Everything else.
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Ima gonna steal this and look for some occasion to use it! IronMan private msg quote post Address this user
@EbaySeller
MOKF, Lady Thor, Eternals & Valkerie I cannot help but have some doubts about. When they come out the reviews will have to be really, really good to convince me to see them at the theater. Honestly I'm not sure HOW you make an interesting MOKF movie. Anyone watch Iron Fist on Netflix? Or Valkerie... Not as powerful as Thor and she's bi-sexual. Fascinating. Sounds like rentals to me. Or wait for them to appear on Disney+. But all that said, betting against Disney/Marvel doesn't seem wise. Their track record is pretty impressive.

Blade had a successful franchise. I believe the reboot will do great. They have been setting up a Black Widow movie for a long time. And Marvel has other (established character) movies still planned. The second Dr. Strange. The second Black Panther. The second Captain Marvel. So even if a few of the --- to comic fans --weak character movies do under perform, Disney still has huge franchises to make sequels of.
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PLOD theCapraAegagrus private msg quote post Address this user
FYI: Blade is in Phase 5.

You're not even close to the only one. I told my friends and family that we won't be going to see any more MCU films in theaters. None of them are disappointed after hearing/reading about Phase 4. None of the movies look interesting at this point other than Doctor Strange ITMOM, but if you don't subscribe to Disney+, you're not gonna get the full experience via the required homework of WandaVision.

Fear began to creep in a long time ago that, after the Infinity Saga, the MCU wouldn't be able to garner that attention anymore. Looks like fear becomes reality.
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PLOD theCapraAegagrus private msg quote post Address this user
Claiming that superhero movies are "must-see" is flat-out incorrect. Ever heard of superhero fatigue? It's setting in.

The reason MCU movies were must-see was the Infinity Saga. If you missed a movie you missed a crucial tie-in to the overarching story that was being built-up for a decade. Now? There is no such FOMO for Phase 4.

Black Widow: Probably gonna garner the same reaction as Solo. Why make prequels for dead characters?

Shang-Chi: Why bother with street-level hero sidekicks at this point? Even with his 'cosmic' power he doesn't have draw other than pandering to the Asian market.

Thor: Just what we need. Crappy comic arcs being brought to life on the big screen. Great job undoing storytelling from prior movies, too, by bringing Mjolnir back (seemingly permanently - not fan service like in Endgame).

Eternals: Who (says the casual fan)? More alien space gods that we can't relate to? What's the draw...?

Doctor Strange, as I said, seems interesting. They're allegedly bringing Vision back, though, which further undoes quality storytelling from the past decade.

Just a lot of questionable ideas. More than I can think of than the last decade of Marvel Studios combined.
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It was a one trick pony show but always hilarious. GAC private msg quote post Address this user
yes, of course because we all know that a few isolated occurances equates to a massive societal trend.
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Collector* Towmater private msg quote post Address this user
We will see if the Disney hype machine can make people want to see the Eternals. I'm not interested. I never read the comics. I don't know many people that did read the books either.

The characters I'm interested in are being phased out or have been killed off. I do think that a "What If" movie with Chris Evans showing the life Steve had without the shield or being Cap would be interesting. I think he would have found ways to still chase darkness and overcome it. Exploring that, and how he would do it would be really interesting.
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If the viagra is working you should be well over a 9.8. xkonk private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Towmater
I do think that a "What If" movie with Chris Evans showing the life Steve had without the shield or being Cap would be interesting. I think he would have found ways to still chase darkness and overcome it. Exploring that, and how he would do it would be really interesting.


I thought maybe they'd do something like that where he's US Agent, but apparently that's going to be someone else. Maybe he can be Nomad.
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If the viagra is working you should be well over a 9.8. xkonk private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by theCapraAegagrus
Claiming that superhero movies are "must-see" is flat-out incorrect. Ever heard of superhero fatigue? It's setting in.


Can you give an example of something that's happened that supports that, as opposed to someone's opinion? The movies keep selling tickets and printing money. Go back to the Captain Marvel thread and read everyone complaining about that and predicting failure, and then remember that it made over a billion dollars. That was in the spring.
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It was a one trick pony show but always hilarious. GAC private msg quote post Address this user
Marvel has absolutely earned the benefit of the doubt. Film after film is a homerun and people still talk of "superhero fatigue". Comic book movies are not a genre. Comic book movies are not only capes. Comic book movies can be anything...period pieces, westerns, sci-fi, dramas, comedies etc. With Marvel, history has shown us not to bet against them. Once the marketing machine kicks in and you see trailers, artwork, story synopsees etc. of these new phases, it will whet all our appetites to go see these films....just like the last 10+ years.
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Collector Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user
I work with many who aren't comic book geek type people who have independtly mentioned to me they are sort of tired of the whole hulk, thor, Infinity war super hero thing
These aren't the dyed in the wool comic waving masses, just normal people who hit the movies as they come out for entertainment. They are ready for something new or different...indeed super hero movies are a genera although correct in stating comic book based movies are not


I think this is precisely why DC attempted to take Swamp thing in a horror direction...why the New Mutants was being made as a horror filn, why the last Thor was a loosely labeled comedy, etc. Even Marvel and Disney realize they have to change things up a bit before it gets stale.

Hence exactly what Marvel is doing...moves that offer a Vampire, r characters people havewnt heard of,etc


Also for those banking on the Black Widow tanking because she is already dead...never ever discount a writers abiliyt to introduce new compelling characters, story arcs that we did not see coming etc. For instance what if as mentioned in another thread we saw a clone of Widow die...Myself I think the widow movie will be the sneak plot of the year and leave everyone stunned.

The last thor movie was a huge success, so that's why they keep offering thor movies. As for trying to predict given storylines, again, since you don't know and cannot know how its going to unfold, it is quite possible they don't use Thors hammer, or a tired storyline

As for undoing well done storytelling from previous storylines, that is the very lifeblood of comic books and has been for their entire history, be it Captain America returning from a frozen icy tomb or superman being resurrected, or even (insert name) excaping from what we all saw was certain death.

The only thing worse than hammering a movie after it was released simply because it was done by DC, is hammering a movie before its even been released because its from marvel.


As for using unheard of character and ideas that are questionable...guardians of the galaxy anyone? A talking racoon and a living tree that talks and green girl and her blue sister...or Black panther becoming a massive hit worldwide , etc. You have to give things a chance and to let them play out. At the end of the day it isn't how well known characters are, or how ridiculous some might find them...it comes down to does it work, and we cannot know that without seeing the pictures


I remember when the people were speculating on the guardians movie and I had a really nice copy of hulk 271...a guy offered me a ridiculous sum for and I was into it for around cover price...I remember thinking...what an utterly stupid character, this has to fail, so nothing wrong with cashing out on that now

Laste year I replaced the book and it cost me almost a hundred dollars for a nicer copy because I prejudged something I had no way to know or any idea what to expect.
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PLOD theCapraAegagrus private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by xkonk
Quote:
Originally Posted by theCapraAegagrus
Claiming that superhero movies are "must-see" is flat-out incorrect. Ever heard of superhero fatigue? It's setting in.


Can you give an example of something that's happened that supports that, as opposed to someone's opinion? The movies keep selling tickets and printing money. Go back to the Captain Marvel thread and read everyone complaining about that and predicting failure, and then remember that it made over a billion dollars. That was in the spring.

The overall discussion of Phase 4/MCU's future supports it. We have to wait for Box Office results to have the concrete numbers.

Captain Marvel was a creative failure. It was always going to "make money". The only reason it was that financially successful was because Nick Fury paged her at the end of Infinity War.
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