Not a CBCS member yet? Join now »
CBCS Comics
Not a CBCS member yet? Join now »

Extremely disapointed...9759

Collector bodmer71 private msg quote post Address this user
Just got grades back on a recent submission... Was running a bit of an experiment.

I had the following books cracked:

DC Presents #26 (CBCS graded 9.4)
New Teen Titan #2 (CBCS graded 9.6)
Tales of the Teen Titans #44 (CGC graded 9.8)
Nova #1 (CGC graded 8.5)
Marvel Team-up #141 (CGC graded 9.6)

The books went straight into window bags and top-loaders... then had them signed (very carefully)... then back in the top-loaders... then submitted to CBCS to be pressed and re-graded.

Grades I got back:

DC Presents #26 - 9.2 (down 1 grade)
New Teen Titans #2 - 9.4 (down 1 grade)
Tales of the Teen Titans #44 - 9.6 (down 1 grade)
Nova #1 - 9.2 (up 2 grades)
Marvel Team-up #141 - 9.6 (same)

I've done this probably a dozen times (with both companies)and without fail, the grades I get usually come back 1-2 grades higher. I've never had a book come back with a lower grade. This is by far the most disappointing result I've had.

Not sure what to do, just venting... Either the people doing the pressing swung and missed... or the books were mishandled when shipped to Florida, then to Texas... or the grader had a rough day... Either way, FML.
Post 1 IP   flag post
Collector poka private msg quote post Address this user
This is the risk you take. Cannot expect to "win" every time
Post 2 IP   flag post
Collector QuaBrot private msg quote post Address this user
These are delicate old pieces of paper, and grading is not an exact science.

You win some you lose some.
Post 3 IP   flag post
Collector Gaard private msg quote post Address this user
If you resubmit them, I bet they come back with different grades again.
Post 4 IP   flag post
Collector comicsforme private msg quote post Address this user
I think CBCS needs to keep there company together not press in Florida then mailing all the way back to TX.Its just taking a chance of damaging it in mail.
Post 5 IP   flag post
Collector bodmer71 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaard
If you resubmit them, I bet they come back with different grades again.


Honestly, that's what it comes down to... the grading is completely subjective. It really depends on who grades it, what kind of mood their in that day, whatever...

This was part of a 56-book submission. Overall, the grades were low across the board. Probably just means that the grader was having a particularly "off" or "strict" day.
Post 6 IP   flag post
Collector infinityG private msg quote post Address this user
When they ran the 10 day promo, my grades came back lower than I expected. I'm no pro of course but I was like "Ouch".

I thought it was even stricter than they typically are or I just got a tough grader. Or maybe a newly hired one...?
Post 7 IP   flag post
Collector Bronte private msg quote post Address this user
I have a dumb question.

Submitting a book to be pressed does not equate to an automatic grade increase.

Did the grading notes from CGC suggest that all those books would benefit from pressing?

Regardless. The drops in grade suck. Sorry for the bad luck.
Post 8 IP   flag post
Collector GAC private msg quote post Address this user
Maybe the first grader(s) was/were too lax and these are the more accurate grades. Of course grading is subjective...its not and never has been an exact science.
Post 9 IP   flag post
Collector infinityG private msg quote post Address this user
@Bronte agreed, pressing never guarantees an increase. You cross your fingers it does but it never hurts to clean and get the book looking presentable in a slab.
Post 10 IP   flag post
Collector etapi65 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodmer71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaard
If you resubmit them, I bet they come back with different grades again.


Honestly, that's what it comes down to... the grading is completely subjective. It really depends on who grades it, what kind of mood their in that day, whatever...

This was part of a 56-book submission. Overall, the grades were low across the board. Probably just means that the grader was having a particularly "off" or "strict" day.

Does one grader typically do a whole submission? Occurs to me I have no idea how this works, how many different graders they use...how many may be grading at any given time etc...I assume they try and keep all the books from one submission together, but 56 seems like a lot to have one grader on for one order. Anyone know?
Post 11 IP   flag post
Collector Cohnman private msg quote post Address this user
Sometimes pressing doesn't help with all books,pressing only helps with certain things,the more you handle the books might not help,remember not only one greader looks at each book. Still nice books good improvement on Nova#1.
Post 12 IP   flag post
Collector xkonk private msg quote post Address this user
@etapi65 The grading process, as others have described it, involves multiple people grading each book.
Post 13 IP   flag post
Collector etapi65 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by xkonk
@etapi65 The grading process, as others have described it, involves multiple people grading each book.
Thought so, the idea a single grader in a poor mood could cost grades seemed far fetched. I wonder if cleaning/pressing could actually make some uncleanable flaws stand out more?
Post 14 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronte
Submitting a book to be pressed does not equate to an automatic grade increase.

Did the grading notes from CGC suggest that all those books would benefit from pressing?


Bingo.
Post 15 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user
So out of 56 books you are unhappy with 5 of them? Am I reading this right?

What are the grader notes of each of those 5 books you are disappointed with?
Post 16 IP   flag post
Collector bodmer71 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaptainmyke
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronte
Submitting a book to be pressed does not equate to an automatic grade increase.

Did the grading notes from CGC suggest that all those books would benefit from pressing?


Bingo.


Yes, for the most part the notes indicated that they would all benefit from being pressed.

That being said, I've done this at least a dozen times (although usually only 2 or 3 at a time, not 5)... I like to get them pressed regardless of grader notes - if for no other reason than to hopefully maintain the current grade... case in point - the 9.8 Teen Titans #44... I just wanted to maintain the 9.8 and hopefully correct any imperfections that may have occurred as a result of handling the book.
Post 17 IP   flag post
Collector bodmer71 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaptainmyke
So out of 56 books you are unhappy with 5 of them? Am I reading this right?

What are the grader notes of each of those 5 books you are disappointed with?


So, don't want this to sound the wrong way... I usually have several hundred books graded every year... I'm not trying to sound like a d-bag or a know-it-all. Just trying to convey that I have a lot of experience submitting books to CGC and CBCS.

I know that any given submission can come back better or worse than expected. I'll submit 6 of the same book across 3 invoices... (so 2 books on each invoice - each invoice would have 25 books total). I'm also pretty good about noting expected grades on each invoice I submit.

The difference is sometimes very noticeable. For example, one of the three invoices (25 total books) would come back with "lowish" grades... a lot of 9.6s on modern books... and then the other two invoices will come back significantly better. Again, to hedge my bets, I'll break up the six books (identical for the most part). One submission may come back with two 9.6s... while the others come back 9.8s.

Moral of the story - it's all subjective. I get it.
Post 18 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR CFP_Comics private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by GAC
Maybe the first grader(s) was/were too lax and these are the more accurate grades. Of course grading is subjective...its not and never has been an exact science.


Unless some damage did occur, the grading during one of his submissions was off. In at least one instance he did not get what he paid for.
Post 19 IP   flag post
Collector Siggy private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodmer71
This was part of a 56-book submission. Overall, the grades were low across the board. Probably just means that the grader was having a particularly "off" or "strict" day.



Or the grader was spot on, unlike whoever did the original grades.

edit: Oh, some have already said as much.
Post 20 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user
I don’t think I’ve ever done a CGC to CBCS regrade but I have cracked a few CBCS books to get them signed and resubmitted (but not pressed) and all but one have come back the same grade and that one went from a 9.0 to a 9.2. The most recent ones I got back just last month.

While I’m sure there are counterexamples, I do feel that CBCS is fairly consistent to their own grading standards but I wouldn’t be surprised if there were some slight variation when going from CGC to CBCS and vice versa
Post 21 IP   flag post
Collector GAC private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by CFP_Comics
Quote:
Originally Posted by GAC
Maybe the first grader(s) was/were too lax and these are the more accurate grades. Of course grading is subjective...its not and never has been an exact science.


Unless some damage did occur, the grading during one of his submissions was off. In at least one instance he did not get what he paid for.


Not sure how one comes to that conclusion. We're dealing with subjectivity here. In every case where the grade went down, it went down 1 grade point. Where it went up, it was 2 grade points. The other was the same. Certainly a single grade point difference is acceptable within the arena of grading subjectivity?
Post 22 IP   flag post
Collector CatmanAmerica private msg quote post Address this user
To me, this whole discussion exemplifies what’s wrong with the crack and press culture. While I’m not opposed to collectors and dealers occasionally pressing books to alleviate minor bends, non-color breaking points of stress and spine roll, the very idea of jockeying for elusively higher grade bumps seems uncomfortably close to gaming the system.

Collecting HG comics shouldn’t be a process reminiscent of pulling the lever on a Las Vegas slot machine.

As I see it, there’s no such thing as “maintaining” a grade on an already slabbed book. No offense to the OP, but the very idea of experimenting with HG books is anathema and seems a bit OC to me. Beyond a certain point the grade of a book should just be whatever it is.

If my one-arm bandit analogy seems a little harsh, just look at how unreliable the current census is over at the CGC (mostly from crack and press resubs). If this isn’t trying to game the system, I don’t know what is.

Without owners supplying old labels to the grading service graders and management don’t have the reliable data needed to remove prior entries. IOW, you get multiple listings of the same book, which misinforms the public. The CGC even posts a disclaimer to that effect.

This isn’t about profits or loses or criticizing those who resubmit books with best intentions, it’s about trying to keep the system honest so the collecting community at large can have trust in it.
Post 23 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR CFP_Comics private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by GAC
Quote:
Originally Posted by CFP_Comics
Quote:
Originally Posted by GAC
Maybe the first grader(s) was/were too lax and these are the more accurate grades. Of course grading is subjective...its not and never has been an exact science.


Unless some damage did occur, the grading during one of his submissions was off. In at least one instance he did not get what he paid for.


Not sure how one comes to that conclusion. We're dealing with subjectivity here. In every case where the grade went down, it went down 1 grade point. Where it went up, it was 2 grade points. The other was the same. Certainly a single grade point difference is acceptable within the arena of grading subjectivity?


Most say that when it is someone else’s books. I understand subjectivity, but a book shouldn’t get 9.2 one day...9.4 or even a 9.6 the next. Especially when it is the same grading team.
Post 24 IP   flag post
Collector bodmer71 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by CatmanAmerica
To me, this whole discussion exemplifies what’s wrong with the crack and press culture. While I’m not opposed to collectors and dealers occasionally pressing books to alleviate minor bends, non-color breaking points of stress and spine roll, the very idea of jockeying for elusively higher grade bumps seems uncomfortably close to gaming the system.

Collecting HG comics shouldn’t be a process reminiscent of pulling the lever on a Las Vegas slot machine.

As I see it, there’s no such thing as “maintaining” a grade on an already slabbed book. No offense to the OP, but the very idea of experimenting with HG books is anathema and seems a bit OC to me. Beyond a certain point the grade of a book should just be whatever it is.

If my one-arm bandit analogy seems a little harsh, just look at how unreliable the current census is over at the CGC (mostly from crack and press resubs). If this isn’t trying to game the system, I don’t know what is.

Without owners supplying old labels to the grading service graders and management don’t have the reliable data needed to remove prior entries. IOW, you get multiple listings of the same book, which misinforms the public. The CGC even posts a disclaimer to that effect.

This isn’t about profits or loses or criticizing those who resubmit books with best intentions, it’s about trying to keep the system honest so the collecting community at large can have trust in it.


Take it easy, governor. I wasn't cracking, pressing, resubmitting to get higher grades... Read the original post a little closer before you start throwing out terms like "crack and press culture" or "gaming the system." I cracked the books to have them signed. I got them pressed because I thought the could benefit from a press... I was hopeful that the grades would go up, but certainly not expecting them to go down.

Also, your comment about "maintaining grades" is misguided, at best. Why would I crack and resubmit a 9.8 if I wasn't getting it signed? Were you assuming that I was just going to get it cracked and pressed for the hell of it? Or because I was trying to get a 9.9? I got it pressed for the exact same reasons that I mentioned previously... because grading is subjective, and if there was a minor flaw that the initial grader overlooked, and the second grader might have caught, I'd rather be safe than sorry for that type of book...
Post 25 IP   flag post
Collector Morgd120 private msg quote post Address this user
In the same boat “bodmer71”. I have a Silver Surfer #50 3rd printing that was slabbed and graded by CBCS at 9.4. Took it to East Coast Comic Con to get it Signed by Ron Lim and Jim Starlin. Took it to their booth they cracked it (CBCS)and witnessed it being Signed. Resubmitted it with pressing. Waiting on the results.
Post 26 IP   flag post
Collector KingNampa private msg quote post Address this user
Your complaints about a .2 grade drop is pointless. You can get that .2 back easily with another resubmission. Just depends on the grader. If you want to talk about dissapointment. I had a Silver Surfer#1 8.5 that got regraded to 6.5 by CBCS. That is something to cry about, lol.
Post 27 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by CatmanAmerica
very idea of jockeying for elusively higher grade bumps seems uncomfortably close to gaming the system.


Welcome to the second coming of the investment age. Bigger and badder. We all know how it will end.
Post 28 IP   flag post
Collector bodmer71 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingNampa
Your complaints about a .2 grade drop is pointless. You can get that .2 back easily with another resubmission. Just depends on the grader. If you want to talk about dissapointment. I had a Silver Surfer#1 8.5 that got regraded to 6.5 by CBCS. That is something to cry about, lol.


That is a bummer... Did you get it pressed too? Bummer either way.
Post 29 IP   flag post
Collector DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by CFP_Comics
Quote:
Originally Posted by GAC
Quote:
Originally Posted by CFP_Comics
Quote:
Originally Posted by GAC
Maybe the first grader(s) was/were too lax and these are the more accurate grades. Of course grading is subjective...its not and never has been an exact science.


Unless some damage did occur, the grading during one of his submissions was off. In at least one instance he did not get what he paid for.


Not sure how one comes to that conclusion. We're dealing with subjectivity here. In every case where the grade went down, it went down 1 grade point. Where it went up, it was 2 grade points. The other was the same. Certainly a single grade point difference is acceptable within the arena of grading subjectivity?


Most say that when it is someone else’s books. I understand subjectivity, but a book shouldn’t get 9.2 one day...9.4 or even a 9.6 the next. Especially when it is the same grading team.

This could be said for both companies, but it happens every single day. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if resubmissions weren't built into the system. Furthermore, I would also say that it gives your line of work a certain amount of supply. If a book comes back a 9.2, get it pressed. If a book comes back a 9.4, get it pressed. Wash. Rinse. Repeat.
Post 30 IP   flag post
254002 95 30
Log in or sign up to compose a reply.
destitute