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Incentive Variants: How they work.913

COLLECTOR JLS_Comics private msg quote post Address this user
and for other books, a retailer has to by X number of a random title to qualify for the retail incentive books. It's not just that they have to order, they need to exceed a pre-set threshold: It can be in excess of 125%, 150% or even 200% of previous orders books.
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Collector Oxbladder private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocBrown
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oxbladder
What they are: A means of encouraging and reinforcing retailer ordering behaviour

Where the come from: Historically? Reward, limited, and incentive (different set-up but still incentive such as Uncanny X-Men 354 1:4 Bachalo Phoenix cover) started in the 90's. Doc may disagree and be correct that it is different now but this IS where the current practice was born.


That book was a 1 in 4 variant; that is, for every 4 copies of Uncanny X-Men that a retailer ordered, they would receive 3 copies of the regular, and 1 of the variant.

However...I checked out my copy of Previews from that month, and there's no mention of any variant cover for the book. In fact, I checked all the way to Mar, 2004 and Superman #205, with the Turner cover, and there's no mention of the variant there, either.

1997 was the year that Marvel established the "2 for #2" variant program, that is, each new regular #2 of a title would have two covers, in a 50/50 split, and those are all (or almost all) listed as being available to order from Previews at least from June of 1998. The listing of X-Men #354 doesn't show anything, but, of course, that isn't proof, as the other variants (#2s) from 1997 and early 1998 don't show in Previews, either.

In fact, because this was during the "Distributor Wars", Marvel doesn't even show up in Previews for much of this timeframe.

What I'd really like to see is a retailer order form. That would give us more information. If the #354 variant is not available to order by retailers, then it is not a retailer incentive.

I'm speaking specifically of the incentive variant program, not the rewards programs of the past, though that was certainly the ancestor of this program.

The rewards programs of the past did not incentivize retailers to order more product at the time to place orders. In most cases, they were a complete surprise to the retailers, as a "thank you" for supporting the publisher's products. That was the case with books like Spiderman #1 platinum, Venom Lethal Protector #1 Gold, etc.

For example: Prophet #4 (1994) was, apparently, a "surprise" variant, also a 1 in 4. Retailers had no idea it was coming until it actually showed up.

That's how it worked back then.

Giving retailers rewards FOR ordering isn't the same thing as giving them incentives TO order.


Hmm missed this post. Thanks for looking back. I think you underestimate the effects rewards could have on a retailer's purchasing behaviors. While it may not increase a particular title or issue giving them is a means of ensuring the numbers don't drop. It could be they were just being kind but, really, do you believe that any more than I do ? It's all marketing to get or maintain "good business".

Yeah it would be good to look back on the retailer order forms. For more than just discussing this topic

Thanks again for the posting this I appreciate it.
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COLLECTOR DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLS_Comics
and for other books, a retailer has to by X number of a random title to qualify for the retail incentive books

Yeah, different publishers have different requirements, which can make determination of rarity even more murky.
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Collector MetalPSI private msg quote post Address this user
Anyone else feel that it's just stupidly out of hand?

Why can't a retailer just approach the publisher and say, I would like x amount of books for my store, would it be possible to get x amount of incentives for the store based on soandso's art work.

EG. Say Hastings buys issues for all their stores. Say they have a 1000 stores and incentivize their employees to sell all their stock for that issue, and if they do so, they get x number of retailer exclusives.

Say those exclusives are a different cover, done by a popular artist instead of the usual artist. If each store has 10 exclusives, that's a 10,000 print run right there. Say the book itself isn't all that popular and only has a 100,000 print run. That's a 1:10 incentive?
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COLLECTOR DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
The incentive is designed to encourage stores to order more copies from Diamond. Stores typically will only order what they think they can sell, they don't like carrying extended inventory. The incentive covers can be sold at higher prices than cover price, which makes the store more money, which is an incentive for them to order more copies to get those incentives, which is more money to the publisher. Everybody wins.

A 1:10 would mean the store must order 10 regulars to get 1 variant. So if the order 1000, they get 100 variants. The actual print runs are determined by the publisher (DC, Marvel, etc.) and they don't share that info publicly.
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Collector Oxbladder private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthLego
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLS_Comics
and for other books, a retailer has to by X number of a random title to qualify for the retail incentive books

Yeah, different publishers have different requirements, which can make determination of rarity even more murky.


I tend to say while relatively speaking these variants could be considered scarce. They are not scarce in the same way as say Wonder Woman Vol.1 #81-82 are scarce. With older books the scarcity comes with copies actually surviving from a print run considerably higher than books now. Today the scarcity is mostly manufactured.

Ten years from now there will still be many high grade surviving copies of variants while there will likely never be more nice copies of Wonder Woman v.1 #81-82 than there are now (nice being maybe 6.0 or better not 9.x)
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Collector MetalPSI private msg quote post Address this user
I dunno about high grade surviving copies. I've heard that it's more common from SA and up to find high grade issues of most books, but considering how many books with huge overstocks were just simply destroyed because that was the cheaper option....
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Collector VaComicsGuy private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oxbladder
I tend to say while relatively speaking these variants could be considered scarce. They are not scarce in the same way as say Wonder Woman Vol.1 #81-82 are scarce. With older books the scarcity comes with copies actually surviving from a print run considerably higher than books now. Today the scarcity is mostly manufactured.


Absolutely. It's going to be interesting to see how this plays out over time. If you are chasing an AF 15, its one book with 1 print run. you either get it or you don't. If you chasing a Harley 1, there are 72 different books with 72 different print runs. There's now a new possibility = you get one, but not necessarily the one you want.
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COLLECTOR JWKyle private msg quote post Address this user
I for one like the variant program. I like to chase the ones where the variant cover is much better then the regular cover. On the ones where there is nothing special about the variant cover I don't get excited no matter what the ratio is. I also believe this gives the comic shop another tool in their bag they can use to make money and keep the doors open.
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COLLECTOR JLS_Comics private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by VaComicsGuy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oxbladder
I tend to say while relatively speaking these variants could be considered scarce. They are not scarce in the same way as say Wonder Woman Vol.1 #81-82 are scarce. With older books the scarcity comes with copies actually surviving from a print run considerably higher than books now. Today the scarcity is mostly manufactured.


Absolutely. It's going to be interesting to see how this plays out over time. If you are chasing an AF 15, its one book with 1 print run. you either get it or you don't. If you chasing a Harley 1, there are 72 different books with 72 different print runs. There's now a new possibility = you get one, but not necessarily the one you want.


Using AF15 as an example, these weren't necessarily collected at the time they came out and for quite some time thereafter. They were beat up, thrown out and treated like a newspaper rag. So to find one in a higher grade is going to be something (now) very much sought after.

With the Harleys EVERYONE and I mean EVERYONE is keeping these in unread 9.8+ condition. Not only will there be a lot from which to chose but now you have everything already in super high grade.
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COLLECTOR JLS_Comics private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWKyle
I for one like the variant program. I like to chase the ones where the variant cover is much better then the regular cover. On the ones where there is nothing special about the variant cover I don't get excited no matter what the ratio is. I also believe this gives the comic shop another tool in their bag they can use to make money and keep the doors open.


Some times the Publisher gives these away for free and some come in extremely limited (500-800) quantities. The Publisher gives them away a summits and events, or sells them at cost and says "Hey thanks Mr. Retailer, go sell this book for $500 and make some great money. It's our way of saying thanks for being a customer."
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Collector MetalPSI private msg quote post Address this user
Nobody is reading these. That is the central point.
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I bought a meat grinder on amazon for $60 and it's changed my life. kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user
Which is why they will be worth nothing because everyone is expecting it.
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Collector Tideson private msg quote post Address this user
I personally am totally for incentive issues they help out retailers if they're not dumb with ordering. I'm also for variants especially the 1:1's or open order after you order like 5 regular covers. Marvels policy with the young and some of the hip hop variant's was really crappy for larger retailers. (I work for formerly the largest retailer NA) and it sorta screwed you over if you ordered a exclusive and you wanted the hip hop cover further out.

As for the rarity of the exclusives it's all about demand if some cover becomes a must have for collectors then it will gain or retain value. Such as hastings video game deadpool cover it runs about $100 and was sold for $1 above cover price. Variants for the most part are just fancy art prints. Great for having your favorite artists and writers sign.

You also have to remember that exclusives can count towards variant count that's why it's generally a good idea to commission exclusives when you have high caliber variant books so you can double dip. You get say 6,000 Donald Trump Pool Exclusive variants and 60 1:100 Deadpool variants and everything below.

As for the rarity of modern comics overall I'm going with they're not that rare at all compared to silver age. Books were formerly returnable with the majority being destroyed. Now not so much, books today are rarely returnable and are printed on higher quality paper and have a greater lifespan than the books of years past. But, comics really haven't been this creative since the Golden Age or as popular now since the 90's so that's going well for us. Lower costs in printing on higher quality materials has allowed many indie series that would've required higher print runs to survive to simply exist.
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Collector IncentiveComic private msg quote post Address this user
Any ideas about the relative rarity or abundance of variant covers labeled "One per store" or these "Launch Party Sketch Covers?"

Thanks
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I bought a meat grinder on amazon for $60 and it's changed my life. kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user
Well considering there is about 2750 comic book stores in America according to the alleged diamond catalog shop subscribers… i'm sure there's a couple of hundred private diamond catalog account holders… It's safe to assume there's a 3000 print run for one per store copy
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I bought a meat grinder on amazon for $60 and it's changed my life. kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user
Should point out though that many several of these copies never gets sold because there's too many comic book stores that are too small to even be able to order enough of a certain copy of a book
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