So CGC Doesn't Accept CBCS Witnesses7131
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shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by SpiderTim Not naming names, but I have seen AWs pull some stunts. No fraudulent sigs but shuffling around known sigs between companies to make sure people get their yellow. CGC does have a very tight ship though, I dont really blame them for not letting the CBCS yellow stand. Self-witnessing is not just allowed, it’s primary policy here. If you get lots of sigs on a regular basis, it’s no problem to just fill out the paperwork and “witness” your own stuff (kind of stretching the definition of witness there). Essentially, CGC only allows only 3rd party witnessing and CBCS allows up to 2nd. |
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| Post 26 • IP flag post | ||
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SpiderTim private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by shrewbeer I became aware that a certain CGC witness set dates on a signature signing for a certain date but in reality it took place one or more months after. I became aware of the fact because I was constantly inquiring to the whereabouts of my book and when I got it back the date placed for the signature didn't coincide with the true date it was placed. I believe it was related to the amount of time they could hold on to books before having to submit for grading. I am also sure that more people could be found to violate policies in both programs but in reality we should all be accountable for following set procedures and policies. |
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 I bought a meat grinder on amazon for $60 and it's changed my life.
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kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Same. | ||
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 It was a one trick pony show but always hilarious.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @teacha777 Quote: Originally Posted by teacha777 I apologize if I'm not understanding; but didn't you already have a witnessed (yellow label) CBCS book with Todds' signature on it? Or is it because Todd is CGC exclusive that you wanted the CGC label and not a yellow CBCS label? Again, sorry if I'm getting this wrong. |
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. On top of that the Newton Ring 
What's the story with Todd being CGC exclusive? $$$$?
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MR_SigS private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Nuffsaid111 I just avoid the common denominator here, and buy comics raw or already graded. It's so much more relaxing. |
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| Post 30 • IP flag post | ||
 Leftover Sundae Gnus
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CatmanAmerica private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by GAC I think what teacha777 is saying is that he already had Gerardo Sandoval's witnessed signature in a CBCS yellow label holder and he wanted to add Todd McFarlane's witnessed signature. So he sent the yellow label CBCS book to CGC to get Mcfarlane's signature privately signed, witnessed and his book re-holdered with a yellow label from CGC. Apparently CGC, based on a vindictive exclusionary policy, screwed over teacha777 by sending the CGC witnessed book ...now with Mcfarlane's witnessed signature added... back in a green label. In short, CGC refused to recognize Gerardo's co-signature as legitimate because the earlier signing had been CBCS witnessed. If I'm misreading this, someone please clarify because this is my take away from the conversation. . |
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It was a one trick pony show but always hilarious.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by CatmanAmerica Thank you kindly for the clarification! That sucks that CGC would do that. |
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| Post 32 • IP flag post | ||
 I award you no points…
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stanley_1883 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Ok, Ive been out of the game for a while so someone please correct me if any of this is incorrect. To my knowledge, in terms of trust, consumers only deal with CBCS and CGC. PGX is still a joke and irrelevant. I havent heard of anything scandalous from either CGC or CBCS, and CBCS does accept CGC witnessed books. If so are they yellow label authorized or red label verified? Now CGC does not accept CBCS yellow books, they will send them back Green label qualified? I thought CGC did accept CBCS witnessed books in the past, was I mistaken? Regardless, personally, i think its petty of CGC, not sure how else to put it. I understand they want to be a monopoly again or whatever, but short of a CBCS scandal thats been verified to be true, I cant really think of a good reason why they wouldnt accept CBCS yellow labels. They dont want to accept Red, thats their prerogative, but this just seems.....childish? |
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| Post 33 • IP flag post | ||
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Lonestar private msg quote post Address this user | |
| While overall it sucks (for us collectors) that CGC won't honor CBCS yellow label as legitimate, I understand it. I see it as a liability issue. Once they re-slab it with a yellow label, they become responsible for the authenticity of the signatures. Either in fact or in a PR sense. Without going into details of what I do for a job, it is not unusual for a client to ask me to accept and use work produced by others. I never do that for various reasons. Mostly because I did not have any oversight or control over how that work was done. So I can't trust it is accurate or correct. I don't have this policy to be petty or childish, but to cover my a$$, and to protect my reputation of being associated with work that might turn out to be bad. I view CGC's policy to be similar to this. They (or someone authorized by them) did not witness the signatures. So they feel they can't trust that those sigs are authentic. Or at least don't want the liability if one turns out to be fraudulent. It's great that CBCS accepts it the other way, but I'd understand if they didn't. Sucks that all this wasn't explained to OP by the facilitator/CGC. It's wrong that they didn't tell him this. |
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shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by stanley_1883 When dealing with an issue of security, one cannot accept something less secure and maintain their own level of security. Allowing pretty much anyone with a pen to witness their own books is not very secure. What’s to stop them from just forging a pile and sending them all in for yellow? Idk how that’s petty of them... |
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teacha777 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by GAC Catman explained it perfectly. |
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| Post 36 • IP flag post | ||
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Leftover Sundae Gnus
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CatmanAmerica private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Lonestar In any service agreement the omission of crucial information to a customer by an agent or employee of that service should be actionable. I'm sure that CGC limits their liability through a complicated legal disclaimer, but if the customer was misinformed at any point in the process and incurs substandard service as a result, he should be able to recover all costs associated with receiving an unsatisfactory product, including the cost of the acquired autograph. Note: This is just my opinion (inflation adjusted). My disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer, but if the right TV/film part comes along...   . |
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| Post 37 • IP flag post | ||
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Lonestar private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @CatmanAmerica We certainly agree that what happened to @teacha777 was wrong. And if CGC was a stand up company, they'd find a way to make it right. | ||
| Post 38 • IP flag post | ||
 I'm good with splotches.
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Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I think I got lost way back with self witnessing being acceptable? I like this company when comparing the two but it really really bugs me it's allowable. Self witness autograph = Dry moist towel = Hard Soft candy = Bright Dark day or more simply put = Bull Crap. I'll stick with my red labels |
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| Post 39 • IP flag post | ||
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Leftover Sundae Gnus
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CatmanAmerica private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by teacha777 The key word here is indirectly. If CBCS honors witnessing from CGC it doesn't mean that they're "technically" employing CGC witnesses. CBCS is merely respecting the legitimacy of the witnessing process and at the same time providing better service for their customers. I have no dog in this hunt because the only encapsulated autograph in my collection is in a red verified label signed by the artist and personalized to me long before CGC or CBCS existed. Nevertheless, where issues of a third party grading service's integrity are raised we all have a stake in the outcome. The fact that CGC doesn't respect the integrity of CBCS's witnessing process ...considering it as a proprietory part of their business model... just demonstrates an inclination on their part for pettiness and/or greed. Also, CBCS has every right to knock down the snarky assertions of a CGC witness claiming to work for CBCS by proxy. If there's no quid pro quo or under table payment being provided then the CGC witness is merely blowing smoke. CGC should take the high road and see CBCS's respect for CGC's witnessing program as a compliment that benefits customers, ...not witness tampering. Quote: Originally Posted by Nuffsaid111 Funny thing, not being a regular user of these programs a little research was required to determine what "self-witnessing" was all about. I agree that any system which allows the witnessed signing of his/her own books ...even if specially classified and limited to their own books... has a potential for abuse. But there's an easy way to remedy the questionable trustworthiness of any such signing by providing photographic evidence. It's just that simple. Look, there is no way to provide absolute 100% certainty of any autograph. It's just not possible when a signature, any signature, becomes valuable enough to attract forgers. That said, there are very few signatures worth that effort. The best historically trusted method ...along with witnessing combined with photographic evidence... is professional signature verification. Of course, that is more costly. The big issue for collectors who value autographs or anything else involving third party grading is the imposition of a exclusivity policies that benefit one grading company over another. This is especially true when it results in conflicting artist's contracts that limit collector's choices. As I see it, these contracts are almost as egregious as NDAs. If little or no qualitative justification exists for refusing to acknowledge and respect a competitor's product, then such exploitive practices can only hurt the hobby by discouraging fair competition. . |
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I award you no points…
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stanley_1883 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Lonestar While i completely understand that CGC doesnt want to, to me, they are saying they dont trust CBCS, hence they are not honoring the labels, and where I'm having a difficult time is understanding the "why" behind it. They dont have to have one, and even if they did, I doubt I'd buy it, but CBCS is trustworthy is my point. Red labels aside, a CBCS yellow label states "I saw this happen" and CGC is saying they dont trust these people. Considering how some CBCS people were CGC people in the past, I consider it petty. |
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| Post 41 • IP flag post | ||
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I'm good with splotches.
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Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Just for kicks and giggles, I googled the definition of a witness and found the following: a person who sees an event, typically a crime or accident, take place. So I guess a self witness definition is???? (outside of the comic community, of course) |
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| Post 42 • IP flag post | ||
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Lonestar private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Question for anyone who has actually had a CGC yellow label re-slabbed by CBCS with a yellow label. Does the CBCS yellow label simply state the date/place when/where the person signed the comic? Is there any reference to the fact that the signature was originally witnessed and certified by CGC? Thanks in advance. |
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| Post 43 • IP flag post | ||
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RyanHicks private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Lonestar The new CBCS yellow label just notifies that it is a witnessed signature and the date. CBCS no longer puts location on the label and they don't indicate that it was previously a CGC witnessed signature at all. |
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| Post 44 • IP flag post | ||
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Lonestar private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @RyanHicks Thanks for the info. | ||
| Post 45 • IP flag post | ||
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teacha777 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| here is how the qualified witnessed label looks...not bad IMO CBCS should do something like it for red labels mixed with witnesses...of course the obligatory advertisement I have a bunch of modern signed graded comics forsale check'em out If you are Interested in something I'll take it off ebay and give you a better deal! Mostly CBCS no Newton! https://www.ebay.com/itm/153143138240 |
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