ethics of buying potentially valuable items from non-collector6561
I swore no more comics, then this happened. | PaulPop private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by poka Once again, I am not a dealer. I'm a collector that answered a great ad. I have no customers. |
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Post 76 IP flag post |
Collector | stanley1883 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by PaulPop You know this does add another wrinkle. Personally if you're making a purchase for your personal collection, i would venture to say the "ethics standard" is significantly lower/non-existent. Conversely, if you're a seller buying inventory or something of the like, then i would argue that you have a higher "ethical standard" to adhere to, regarding karma, paying it forward, all that jazz. |
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Post 77 IP flag post |
Collector | CopperAgeKids private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by PaulPop Wether you are a dealer or you are a collector is wholly irrelevant. You obtained thousands of dollars' worth of comic books for next to nothing....a $100 or so. You did not buy commonly available books for $1.75 a piece. You did not buy books at $1.75 per book, that were were $20 or $40 a piece. You bought books that were worth worth 3 figures a piece, at a minimum....accounting for the non-keys that you bought at $1.75 a piece. Those were likely $50 books...averaging in a stack of $50 books with a few keys that are worth a minimum of $2000-$3000, assuming they were all low grade. Obviously, the monetary value of the comics means a great deal, to anyone. Yourself included....if that were not true, you would not have walked into a stranger's home to obtain comic books. You would have bought the books in reprinted form at a $1 or $2 , per book from Mycomicshop, if the monetary value of the books was not an issue. Your atempt at justifying your lack of personal ethics with "I'm just a collector, not a dealer" is disgusting. Wether you keep them for yourself or sell them does not have anything to do with the facts at hand, which is that the books that you obtained are worth thousands of dollars. They can be liquidated into cold cash, whenever you desire. You did not buy books that were priced remotely fairly. Nor did you buy books that were deeply discounted from a typical dealer's price or FMV, at a convention or via an eBay listing. The seller invited you into in her home and you took advantage of her trust.. You only went after keys and bigger tickets for (less than) a penny on the dollar. You purchased comic books for about: *****One half of one percent , to possibly as much as one percent of their value****. This higher 1 percentage figure includes a liberal rounding up to account for the books that were not mega keys, it represents the sum total of the fair market value of the books that you obtained. I am not saying that you should not have bought the books. I would have bought them. What I am saying, is that the ethical thing to do in such a scenario, would be to revisit the seller after you purchased the books and given her a small fraction of what the books are worth. 5% to 10% would not have hurt you, at all. The seller saved you thousands of dollars by letting you cherry pick books at $1.75 a piece. What you engaged in, is theft by deception. Clear and simple. With the due respect that a person like yourself deserves, I will say that you are a miserable human being who lacks even a modicum amount of respect and empathy for others. |
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Post 78 IP flag post |
Collector | CopperAgeKids private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by stanley1883 You are absolutely wrong. Morality is absolute; there are no grey areas in right and wrong. |
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Post 79 IP flag post |
Collector | poka private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by PaulPop Yep - that is probably the best |
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Post 80 IP flag post |
Captain Corrector | CaptainCanuck private msg quote post Address this user | |
My 2 cents on the aforementioned $425 haul is that ignorance can be bliss. However, showing the ‘score’ to the incoming LCS dealer could have caused him/her to enlighten the seller as to the actual value of the books she had just sold. | ||
Post 81 IP flag post |
Collector | BrianGreensnips private msg quote post Address this user | |
I finally saw my co- worker yesterday. He is the one that I bought the prints from. He had me look at a stack of about 20 mid grade bronze books for him that he dropped off to me when he walked by my office about a week ago. I was honest when I appaised them at about $60. He said I can have them for $40 and I gladly paid it. I was not going to haggle with what he wanted because I was very happy with the print transaction. I had also sold some of the prints and knew I needed to show him my graditude. So I reached into my wallet and gave him a fresh $100 bill. He was very happy about that and shook my hand. I asked him to bring in whatever else he may find in his task of packing up his house, as he will be moving to Florida soon. I know he will come to me first. I have earned his trust and it feels right. | ||
Post 82 IP flag post |
Collector | poka private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by BrianGreensnips That’s the way. Make sure to tell him if he comes across something in Florida to let you know |
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Post 83 IP flag post |
Collector | Wraith private msg quote post Address this user | |
To all those high moral fibre in this thread.. Please be advised there is some shenanigans being proposed in this thread https://forum.cbcscomics.com/topic/6638/page/1/ever-had-any-lucky-breaks-at-an-auction/ Please advise these people that should they purchase the item on the cheap, they should pay the seller the difference in actual value.. (I'm evidently of low moral fibre and cheer them on so it needs someone with more character to step in ) |
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Post 84 IP flag post |
Collector | CopperAgeKids private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Wraith Buying books, or anything else for that matter, through an eBay auction is not remotely comparable to going to someone 's home and cherry picking silver age keys for $1.75 a piece. With eBay, you have millions of potential buyers, who are capable of seeing an auction. Comparing one buyer, entering your home and cherry picking items.... is not the least bit comparable to opening up an item for bidding to millions of registered bidders on eBay auction platform. I can't believe that I have to point that out. |
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Post 85 IP flag post |
Collector | CopperAgeKids private msg quote post Address this user | |
In simple terms, with eBay, the seller has the opportunity, to sell various items for a decent value. Going to someone's home and taking their best items for pennies, and leaving them with the chaff.... Doing that takes away the opportunity, that one has through selling on a open venue like an eBay auction. There is nothing inherently wrong with buying items privately, I do that whenever I can. There is a very clear line that an ethical dealer,or a collector, will not cross. That is willfully being deceptive on a large scale; there is a lot to be said about playing fairly. This Paulpope character pissed all over that line and ran off, smiling. He's still smiling now, years after the fact. |
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Post 86 IP flag post |
Collector | Wraith private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by CopperAgeKidsa garage sale is not open to a solitary person and the garage sale mentioned advertised their sale.. I wont dispute ebay is more open platform, but it could be a non collector selling their uncles books you are taking advantage of if you manage to buy in an auction no one else noticed. There are auctions that DO go unnoticed that people get amazing deals on, which is exactly what that thread is about. The seller at the garage sale chooses not to sell on eBay or at their LCS or any other platform .. it doesn't automatically give them the right for everyone to give them compensation payments for not understanding the value of their items.. Edit.. To add, my personal opinion is the person selling books for $1 at a garage sale is the most deserving of getting $1 and $1 only.. If you can't be bothered to do a little research on items you sell then that's your problem, not the buyers Edit 2: I understand pokas angle, but that's looking at it as someone who is looking for repeat business, looking for the seller to think of you as their first port of call as they feel they get a fair deal.... So long term poka wins by being able to source from multiple people who can't be bothered doing leg work themselves.. That's not a moral high ground.. That's a sound business strategy for someone who runs as a buyer seller. For someone like me who collects and respects the books and isn't looking to flip, I'll take those $1 books thank you very much |
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Post 87 IP flag post |
It was a one trick pony show but always hilarious. | GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
The whole crux of this debate is; what is the responsibility/obligation of the person (who is in the know) vs. the the person who is selling (who is ignorant of what they have). In a different scenario, if you break a law because you didn't know it was a law, Ignorance of that law is not a defence. Does that line of reasoning apply to the sale of items? just a question I'm putting out... |
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Post 88 IP flag post |
If the viagra is working you should be well over a 9.8. | xkonk private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by GAC It's also perfectly reasonable for both sides to be responsible. If a seller decides to sell something without looking into it, or knowingly rushing to sell without looking into it, they know they could be taken advantage of. But buyers are not under any obligation to take advantage of people either. If a buyer thinks they're getting too good a deal, there's nothing stopping them from slipping an extra $20 (or whatever) in the stack. Put another way, it takes two to tango. |
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Post 89 IP flag post |
I swore no more comics, then this happened. | PaulPop private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by CopperAgeKids So this is the guy who is taking the moral high ground with me..... https://www.facebook.com/vacomicon/photos/a.207213783930.129678.169876788930/10155765533103931/?type=3&theater Really? So, if I may quote Eric Clapton: Before you accuse me, take a look at yourself. I'm sure you will blame them. Knock yourself out. So this got me curious. I went to see what you had for sale. Gunnsmoke Western #57 in a 4.0 condition. In the guide it's $26. In mint it's $135. Copper Age Kids price $225? That's a bit of a markup there, isn't it? You wouldn't be trying to take advantage, would you? Hulk Annual 6. In the guide, $8. In mint, $12. But Copper Age kids will let you have it for.....$28.99. A bargain. How about Jungle Action #8. Guides for $10-15. I checked eBay listings. That's about right. Copper Age Kids? Drum roll please...$29.99 Seems like someone is trying to take advantage here, and it ain't me. I also wasn't banned from the VA Comicon. By the way, you need to work on your reading skills. You claimed I was dealer when I stated I was not. You named books I bought that I never mentioned. You gave an incorrect purchase price. Do you read the comics or just look at the pictures? I rest my case. Nothing you say has any meaning at this point. And I went back and re-read this thread. It looks like most people are on my side. Any of you guys that backed me up want me to see some pictures from my haul? Just shout out. |
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Post 90 IP flag post |
Collector | X51 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by CopperAgeKids Is it improper or immoral to buy a Golden Age book for $20,000 and sell it for $40,000? Clearly, the original seller is losing out, but the markup percentage isn't unreasonable. |
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Post 91 IP flag post |
It was a one trick pony show but always hilarious. | GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by xkonk@xkonk It does take two to tango but what is the obligation, if any? I think it boils down to the context of the transaction. Morality is not absolute. Morality is as individual as the person themselves. If you find a $20 bill on the ground do you attempt to find its rightful owner or do you pocket it? If the individual came across the books from a person who wasn't intending/planning to sell and just offered to buy them from said person for a low-ball price then we have problem with that hands down. But if someone responds to an ad and gives that person their asking price, I'm hard pressed to say the buyer is obligated to do anything other than pay. The onus should not solely lie on the buyer, the seller has responsibility here for sure. Especially in todays environment where information is readily available. Is the nice/warm and fuzzy/generous thing to do, to give a little more?, probably...is their an obligation to do so...not sure about that. Obligation is a strong word.....perhaps the seller has an obligation to themselves to know what they're selling....just a POV. I don't know what the answer is. EDIT: Let's look at vintage clothing (Levi's jeans etc.). There's a market for them and people pay good money for the right garment. What if you had no idea about the jean jackets you had and had a garage sale. You priced the old jackets at $5 a pop and sold them all only to discover they were worth 100 times that. Do you blame yourself for not researching or do you blame the buyers that didn't tell you they're worth a lot more? Are the buyers obligated to tell you? |
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Post 92 IP flag post |
If the viagra is working you should be well over a 9.8. | xkonk private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by GAC There is obviously context involved and not a clear line between every situation. I'm just saying that there are some situations where most people (everyone?) would agree that the buyer unfairly took advantage of someone. On the flip side, sometimes people sell things knowing they aren't getting full, or even fair, value. But putting myself in the buyer's shoes, people don't have to participate in a deal simply because it is available. |
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Post 93 IP flag post |
It was a one trick pony show but always hilarious. | GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by xkonk I get what you're saying. Responding to an ad..in my opinion...may not be the definition of taking advantage of someone. Its giving the person the amount of money they requested and finalizing a transaction. If he walked into their home unsolicited and offered to buy the books at fire sale prices, then we are 100% in agreement. If you were in the buyers shoes, you would have done your research and this wouldn't have happened. Participating in a deal that is available doesn't make the person immoral....and to me, this is what this is all about....do we demonize someone for answering an ad and paying the asking price? |
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Post 94 IP flag post |
Collector | KingNampa private msg quote post Address this user | |
@CopperAgeKids Morality is objective. There is no one answer. Every culture, person, religion has different moral values. I don’t think it is polite to scold someone who doesn’t follow what you perceive as the “right way”. Very similar to a religion that thinks anyone who doesn’t believe the same things as their faith is going to Hell. | ||
Post 95 IP flag post |
I bought a meat grinder on amazon for $60 and it's changed my life. | kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by PaulPop Oh and @CopperAgeKids ... |
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Post 96 IP flag post |
Collector | KingNampa private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by CopperAgeKids With all due respect might want to practice what your preach. Just saw this on Facebook... Link |
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Post 97 IP flag post |
I swore no more comics, then this happened. | PaulPop private msg quote post Address this user | |
@kaptainmyke You are my hero!!!!!!! | ||
Post 98 IP flag post |
I bought a meat grinder on amazon for $60 and it's changed my life. | kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by PaulPop No brah. YOU are my hero. |
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Post 99 IP flag post |
I bought a meat grinder on amazon for $60 and it's changed my life. | kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user | |
It's like when I deal with my mother-in-law (on a daily basis) ... How can I take someone seriously whose so religious and high morality yet so opinionated, judgmental, biased, bigoted, and racist all in one package? I just don't have time for that or consider someone like that to be trustworthy or honest. In a nutshell, I don't get along well with her. I don't believe anything she says, or take anything she says worth consideration. For that, I will never be religous. It's such a turn off. | ||
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It was a one trick pony show but always hilarious. | GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
This thread will get locked. | ||
Post 101 IP flag post |
Collector | stanley1883 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by CopperAgeKids I have to disagree. This is not entirely different than a going out of business sale. If your local electronics shop went under and was having a liquidation sale, you wouldn't buy a large flat screen television at bargain basement price? Arguably it's the same difference if you're paying $500 for a tv worth $5k or something similar. Also, I still stand by my initial statement that some of the blame is on the seller. She was too lazy to check value, or simply didn't care. If I inherit something from a relative, like plates, or something I have no interest in, I'm going to either do a little leg work on my end to make sure I don't get fleeced or ask someone who has more knowledge on the material than i do. Again, I'm not saying this is right or wrong, but I am certainly, unequivocally saying that there IS a gray area. Especially when morals are different from person to person, largely dependent upon ones environment and life experience. |
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Post 102 IP flag post |
Collector | stanley1883 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by KingNampa You forgot to drop the mic. Well done |
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Post 103 IP flag post |
COLLECTOR | shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by KingNampa Wohoa... well this just thread got even more interesting Two mic drop posts in the span of a few minutes. KN is on fire |
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Post 104 IP flag post |
Collector | Darkga private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by KingNampa Not to nitpick, but I think you meant subjective. |
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