ethics of buying potentially valuable items from non-collector6561
 Rock, Paper, Scissors, Lizard, Spock
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Tedsaid private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by GAC I noticed this too. IIRC, long boxes hold 300 comics, raw. That might be high, but even at that rate, the $1.50 per comic is still 1/3 less than the $12,000 price. So ... I guess she was ignorant of the comics' value *and* math. |
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| Post 51 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
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Savage_Spawn private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by PaulPop No, obviously you need a margin. Retailers have to have a certain margin to successfully cover their overhead and make a profit. You failed to mention in your original post that this was 7 or 8 years ago. I would guess the values of these comics were a lot lower back then. I dunno, maybe I overreacted but the tone and tenor of your original post sounded like you gleefully enjoy taking advantage of people. I've known a couple of people that were openly giddy about ripping people off and stealing whatever they could get away with. One of them was an absolute doozy so brazen. I might type up his story a bit at a time and maybe post it here sometime in the future. My biggest problem is time. Seems like this thing called life keeps interrupting my life.... |
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| Post 52 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
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CopperAgeKids private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Savage_Spawn You misread nothing. The books referenced have certainly increased in FMV from 7-8 years ago, but not by much in relation to his $1.50 per book payments. Even if the books had doubled in value between 2008 and 2016 (which they have not), he would still paid the seller less than 1% of the fair market value of the books. Show me a single business that requires a 99% profit margin to operate and I will show you a business operated by criminals. |
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| Post 53 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
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Wraith private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Savage_Spawn how is it "ripping someone off" or "openly stealing" if you pay asking price? The seller didn't have to offer it that cheap but they were comfortable to do so and gladly took the agreed price in exchange for the book. I doubt the seller would feel ripped off if they ever found out what they could have sold the book for as it wasn't the buyer who misled them. Regretful, yes. Stupid, more than likely. But you can't blame a buyer for paying what you asked for. |
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| Post 54 • IP flag post | ||
 COLLECTOR
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shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user | |
| For all of you that are outraged, here is a question (and no I’m not taking sides just thinking here) Would you feel differently if it was a business? Say you walk into a warehouse sale and it used to be a printing business. They are selling everything off. In the storeroom are plenty of file copy comics and various shit, which are all worth nothing more to the owner than the labor to chuck them in the dumpster. Do you offer your own back to empty that store room for him for free? Or do you tell him what he has? |
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| Post 55 • IP flag post | ||
 I swore no more comics, then this happened.
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PaulPop private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Let me clear a few things up. I'm not a dealer, just a collector. So no, I'm not giving my ebay name out. I use it for buying, not selling. I did not resell the books at a profit, I put them in my collection. There's no money to split with her. I go to antique stores, yard sales and flea markets looking for a good deal. I do not say "You're asking $20? Here's $100." If you want to, fine, but don't take it out on me. I did not post the craigslist ad looking for books. She did. I paid her price. We were both happy. Recently at a convention, I haggled with a dealer for a $200 book. He finally came down to $55 because he just wasn't making sales that weekend. Was I supposed to give him more? Should I have said no deal so no one benefits? He named an ultra low price and I took it. Who wouldn't? Do you think the dealer that came in after me at this comic sale insisted on paying more than her asking price per book? You know the answer to that. I'm not unethical. I followed the sellers rules and prices. |
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| Post 56 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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Wraith private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by PaulPopim pretty jealous. You had a find most of us dream of.. Congrats.. And good on you for keeping them.. At least they are in the hands of someone who values and appreciates them and will give them the care they need.. probably something the original owner would have liked. I also think others have been way too critical on what you said and how you said it.. Its a great story.. Especially that you got there before your lcs and you got to show off your score on the way out! And the seller got the money she asked for.. Everyone happy.. Except for some on this thread.. I don't understand why a non collector who happens upon a box of comics they don't even care about and just wants to get rid of them for a couple of bucks each has some unspoken right to get x% of the true value. That's not the way the world works.. |
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| Post 57 • IP flag post | ||
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I swore no more comics, then this happened.
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PaulPop private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Wraith Thank you. | ||
| Post 58 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
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poka private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Wraith How do you know the seller was happy. Maybe she thought she could sell the remaining comics for $1.5 each or whatever. I feel someone took unfairly advantage of a seller who might knew what she had in total but not what each comic individually were worth. The person might have done a score but it not a score I personally would be proud off. |
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| Post 59 • IP flag post | ||
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I swore no more comics, then this happened.
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PaulPop private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by poka She thanked me many times, helped me get the books to my car, and said I was welcome back if I wanted more after my next payday. In hindsight, I wish I had. I am getting curious. I am going to see if I can find out whatever happened to the rest of the books from my local comic guy. I know he didn't buy them all, but he might know where they ended up. |
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| Post 60 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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Wraith private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by PaulPopthe torment... |
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| Post 61 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
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BrianGreensnips private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I bet she still sold a lot more of them at $1.50 a piece. If she is happy that is what matters. If I was in her shoes and let say it was something collectable like vintage video game systems, which I know absolutely nothing about. However my son knows all about them. So, I would consult with someone like him who is educated about it first. @PaulPop My only complaint I have about you is how you gloated about it and not so much about the transaction itself. I have found that I try to be humble about great opportunities that come my way. Today I am giving my co- worker $100 for a nice sale that I made from some prints that he sold me very cheap. I will feel good doing that and I think he will appreciate it too. Who knows, he might uncover some more stuff as he is selling his house and moving out of state as he is retiring from work. | ||
| Post 62 • IP flag post | ||
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I swore no more comics, then this happened.
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PaulPop private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by BrianGreensnips Good for you. Sincerely. I wasn't gloating. But I was the happiest man on the east coast that day. And I don't mind sharing my wonderful find, obviously. Part of the fun of collecting is the hunt, and that was a good one. Everyone here can say what they want, but I did nothing wrong. And you are sharing $100 with a co-worker? A guy you see every day? A friend? That's different than some random person running a Craigslist ad. |
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| Post 63 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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BrianGreensnips private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @PaulPop You got a point there. Happy hunting. | ||
| Post 64 • IP flag post | ||
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I swore no more comics, then this happened.
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PaulPop private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @BrianGreensnips Thank you Brian. | ||
| Post 65 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
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stanley1883 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| This brings up an interesting question. For those who are of the mindset that something should have been said, whats the stopping point? Is it the fact that it was $1.50? What if someone has a really nice action 1, and i offer to $1k, is that any different? I'm asking if the fact that only $1.50 was paid is the issue, or the difference between value and price paid? $50 for a 9 something Hulk 181, $2 for modern variant valued at $1k. whats the threshold? What if its all moderns which require more research, is it still wrong if I know which variants are valuable and I pick those out of the dollar bin? If A comic shop has a BA Adventures 12 in the dollar bin you tell the the store owner? I'm legit curious. Not trying to stir the pot. | ||
| Post 66 • IP flag post | ||
 Captain Accident
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the420bandito private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I bought 2 GA books off feebay this week. The seller had them posted $11 for the pair. Slabbed and cleaned up I can probably sell each book for $200+. Is it on me to message the seller and ask him/her to raise the price? Long story short...do some research before you post stuff for sale. | ||
| Post 67 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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Savage_Spawn private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Wraith You need to reread my post. The ripping off and stealing were attributed to the two people I've personally known that engage in bold open theft. I was using them as an example, maybe a bit overly extreme I admit. Still the tone and tenor of his original post is offputting to me. Obviously to others as well. |
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| Post 68 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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Savage_Spawn private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by shrewbeer Legit question. Businesses know (or should know) what they have. Sometimes they need to offload excess inventory or offer "loss leaders" to attract new/more customers. |
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| Post 69 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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poka private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Let’s say the woman Wales into your LCS and you are besind the counter. The woman asks you for $12k. You say you cannot do that but you will do individually. Woman says ok $1.5 for each. You go through the books and picks the most valuable books and end up paying $425 for 11k of books. How long do you think it will take before it gets known how you handle your customers. People who operates like this are sharks with little morale, ethics or empathy. Would probably take candy from a kid as well. Anyway - good for you that your are happy with what you did. |
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| Post 70 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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poka private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by PaulPop Hopefully she didn’t find out the true value of what she let go. Then she might not be as happy as might have been on the day |
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| Post 71 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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Wraith private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by pokahe's not a comic shop owner.. He's a collector looking to expand his personal collection.. She didn't come to his shop to get a fair valuation and price on the books. Rather she invited people to come her home to pay her asking price. For all we know she may have gone to a comic shop and got that 12k figure and wasnt happy with the shops offers to buy or sell for a commission so she decided she would do it on her own her way... She set her own place of business and her own terms. It's all on her. You are conflating two very, very different scenarios Edit: to add even if he was a shop owner, if he has seen an advertisement of a sale at her place of business to do a deal on her terms. he is not morally obliged to give a fair valuation as that was not a condition of her sale..she did not come to his shop for fair professional opinion. She simply advertised a sale and stated a price. |
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| Post 72 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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Wraith private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by pokabut that is not the buyers fault.. If she was a normal person, any anger or resentment she had after realising true values would be directed at herself as she set the conditions of sale.. Not her buyers |
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| Post 73 • IP flag post | ||
 It was a one trick pony show but always hilarious.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I think people have a mental picture that she was a little old lady down on her luck, recently widowed etc....while we don't want to rip people off by misleading them from what they have....its a different scenario when it's a reasonably/seemingly intelligent, abled person getting their asking price. | ||
| Post 74 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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Wraith private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by GACI agree. and how many garage sales has anyone been to when that is the case? Hard work for a little old lady This thread isn't about ethics of buying of a widowed old lady who may be suffering from dementia. Odds on she is NOT having a garage sale and any opportunities to purchase the books in her home are likely far more predatory. . This thread about buying from a non collector. That non collector could be a 22 year old male who received his deceased grandfather's books and wants to swap them for an iPhone..his call. |
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| Post 75 • IP flag post | ||
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I swore no more comics, then this happened.
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PaulPop private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by poka Once again, I am not a dealer. I'm a collector that answered a great ad. I have no customers. |
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| Post 76 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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stanley1883 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by PaulPop You know this does add another wrinkle. Personally if you're making a purchase for your personal collection, i would venture to say the "ethics standard" is significantly lower/non-existent. Conversely, if you're a seller buying inventory or something of the like, then i would argue that you have a higher "ethical standard" to adhere to, regarding karma, paying it forward, all that jazz. |
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| Post 77 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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CopperAgeKids private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by PaulPop Wether you are a dealer or you are a collector is wholly irrelevant. You obtained thousands of dollars' worth of comic books for next to nothing....a $100 or so. You did not buy commonly available books for $1.75 a piece. You did not buy books at $1.75 per book, that were were $20 or $40 a piece. You bought books that were worth worth 3 figures a piece, at a minimum....accounting for the non-keys that you bought at $1.75 a piece. Those were likely $50 books...averaging in a stack of $50 books with a few keys that are worth a minimum of $2000-$3000, assuming they were all low grade. Obviously, the monetary value of the comics means a great deal, to anyone. Yourself included....if that were not true, you would not have walked into a stranger's home to obtain comic books. You would have bought the books in reprinted form at a $1 or $2 , per book from Mycomicshop, if the monetary value of the books was not an issue. Your atempt at justifying your lack of personal ethics with "I'm just a collector, not a dealer" is disgusting. Wether you keep them for yourself or sell them does not have anything to do with the facts at hand, which is that the books that you obtained are worth thousands of dollars. They can be liquidated into cold cash, whenever you desire. You did not buy books that were priced remotely fairly. Nor did you buy books that were deeply discounted from a typical dealer's price or FMV, at a convention or via an eBay listing. The seller invited you into in her home and you took advantage of her trust.. You only went after keys and bigger tickets for (less than) a penny on the dollar. You purchased comic books for about: *****One half of one percent , to possibly as much as one percent of their value****. This higher 1 percentage figure includes a liberal rounding up to account for the books that were not mega keys, it represents the sum total of the fair market value of the books that you obtained. I am not saying that you should not have bought the books. I would have bought them. What I am saying, is that the ethical thing to do in such a scenario, would be to revisit the seller after you purchased the books and given her a small fraction of what the books are worth. 5% to 10% would not have hurt you, at all. The seller saved you thousands of dollars by letting you cherry pick books at $1.75 a piece. What you engaged in, is theft by deception. Clear and simple. With the due respect that a person like yourself deserves, I will say that you are a miserable human being who lacks even a modicum amount of respect and empathy for others. |
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| Post 78 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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CopperAgeKids private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by stanley1883 You are absolutely wrong. Morality is absolute; there are no grey areas in right and wrong. |
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| Post 79 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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poka private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by PaulPop Yep - that is probably the best |
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| Post 80 • IP flag post | ||
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