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ethics of buying potentially valuable items from non-collector6561

Collector CopperAgeKids private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuffsaid111
Last year spiderman 129, all star western 10 and spiderman 39 at 3 different yard sales for less than $1. They were in a lot $40, $25 and $40 with other decent books. None were little old ladies or men. Two were guys in their 20s/30s. The other was a guy in roughly 60s. At no point did I feel bad. They could have looked up single issues if they wanted to




In that scenario, I would have bought those lots.Anyone would have, in their right mind.

After paying, I'd ask if they had more books, and ask for their number.

If they didn't have more books and didn't want to give their number to you, I would have swung back by after the books were sold, with some cash.

The decent thing to do would have been give each of those guys, $50 to a $100 each , after you sold the books.

Basically, a finders' fee.
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Collector MR_SigS private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by poka
Quote:
Originally Posted by brandon77
Say you run across a group of books for sale at a yardsale or even from someone who's proclaiming they just want to "get rid of this junk..."

I'll give a specific (so far rhetorical) example:
Somebody is selling a bunch of knick-knacks including some old comic books. You know if you purchase these you can resell the books yourself (some runs, some standalone issues) to other collectors for, let's say $1,000 total. Granted, it would entail some effort and risk on your part, but again for the sake of argument let's say it's a pretty solid bet.

Let's say the seller will accept $50 on the spot. Do you feel the pang of conscience and disclose something to the effect of "maybe you should see how valuable these are before accepting such a small offer?" Or, do you just give them a heartfelt "thanks" and a handshake and bug out?


i would buy but give seller more money than asking. in the end your conscious so you do what makes you feel you didn’t cheat seller


I was just daydreaming this scenario yesterday, except in my daydream I give them more after the sale is made. This way the seller won't say, "Maybe I priced these wrong. I'd better research it," while it's still in their possession.
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Collector stanley1883 private msg quote post Address this user
to me it would be largely dependent on the situation if I'm being honest. the majority of the time, I wouldn't have any guilt, you should know what you're getting rid of. I would like to think I would have 2 exceptions, the first being the price point variance. If its a 1000 worth of comics being sold for $50-$100 im not worried, if i want to sell those it will take more time and effort on my part. But if they have high end keys or grails just ridiculously priced, then yes, I'd tell them and give them a brief 101.
The second exception would be the person, and this trumps the first exception. If you're a jerk and Im able to discern that you're a jerk within that short amount of time, no chance in hell im telling you anything. If its a nice person, or someone genuinely down on their luck, then yeah, i'd say something.
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Collector Savage_Spawn private msg quote post Address this user
Depends on the situation. I've bought plenty of blind "grab bags" thru the years. Lots of times at swap meets. I may have flipped thru a few of the comics but mostly don't even know what is in most of them at this point. I've got dozens of boxes, bags, tubs, notebooks, etc. of these. Obviously I can't go back and reimburse these and have hit some major keys (which at the time I probably wouldn't have known they were keys). If it were a situation where I did dig through them and found a key I might go back and give 10% of the value to the person. If a charity like salvation army or goodwill or thrift shop I'd make a donation to them. Most big used bookstores nope, they're paying pennies per comic and already doing well. Plus it's harder today as now they keep an open eye for key comics, although once in awhile one will slip through.
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I swore no more comics, then this happened. PaulPop private msg quote post Address this user
I did it and ran. Had a Craigslist ad show up. Woman said she inherited her Uncles comics. About 18 long boxes. She wanted to sell all for $12,000. Good and mediocre stuff. I said I couldn't afford that, would she sell any separately. Her answer was Yes, but they will cost me $1.50 each. I spent about $425, left with Daredevil 1, Avengers 4, 30 early 60's Action comics, old Batman, Metal Men, first Teen Titans appearance, first Spectre, a run of Lois Lanes, ASM 7, 17, 18, X-Men 4, 5, 6 and more. At this point, I can't even remember all of them. I pretty much walked out with all her silver age. Plus a run of Watchmen. Sorry, I suck, I never looked back.

I even managed to beat the local comic dealer there and showed him what I was leaving with. It was glorious.
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Collector CopperAgeKids private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulPop
I did it and ran. Had a Craigslist ad show up. Woman said she inherited her Uncles comics. About 18 long boxes. She wanted to sell all for $12,000. Good and mediocre stuff. I said I couldn't afford that, would she sell any separately. Her answer was Yes, but they will cost me $1.50 each. I spent about $425, left with Daredevil 1, Avengers 4, 30 early 60's Action comics, old Batman, Metal Men, first Teen Titans appearance, first Spectre, a run of Lois Lanes, ASM 7, 17, 18, X-Men 4, 5, 6 and more. At this point, I can't even remember all of them. I pretty much walked out with all her silver age. Plus a run of Watchmen. Sorry, I suck, I never looked back.

I even managed to beat the local comic dealer there and showed him what I was leaving with. It was glorious.


The brazen display of a complete lack of ethics on your part,is pretty damn amazing.

This is the polar opposite of "glorious".
Post 31 IP   flag post
I swore no more comics, then this happened. PaulPop private msg quote post Address this user
balonQuote:
Originally Posted by CopperAgeKids
The brazen display of a complete lack of ethics on your part,is pretty damn amazing.

This is the polar opposite of "glorious".


Baloney. Every collector is out there for that great find. Who ever said "I want Hulk 181 but I insist on paying at least $1000?" You think the dealer that came in behind me at this woman's house asked if he could please pay more for her books? She had a price and I agreed. The buyers of the Edgar Church collection paid pennies on the dollar for the best Golden Age collection uncovered. Any dealer usually offers you 45% of value on key books. Less on most others. Are all dealers low lives?

I stand by what I said.
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Collector doog private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulPop
I did it and ran. Had a Craigslist ad show up. Woman said she inherited her Uncles comics. About 18 long boxes. She wanted to sell all for $12,000. Good and mediocre stuff. I said I couldn't afford that, would she sell any separately. Her answer was Yes, but they will cost me $1.50 each. I spent about $425, left with Daredevil 1, Avengers 4, 30 early 60's Action comics, old Batman, Metal Men, first Teen Titans appearance, first Spectre, a run of Lois Lanes, ASM 7, 17, 18, X-Men 4, 5, 6 and more. At this point, I can't even remember all of them. I pretty much walked out with all her silver age. Plus a run of Watchmen. Sorry, I suck, I never looked back.

I even managed to beat the local comic dealer there and showed him what I was leaving with. It was glorious.


Truly a disgusting story, all too common, taking advantage. You could have chosen to be ethical and still made good money, but just because there are others that are unethical, does not excuse you.
Post 33 IP   flag post
Collector CopperAgeKids private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulPop
balonQuote:
Originally Posted by CopperAgeKids
The brazen display of a complete lack of ethics on your part,is pretty damn amazing.

This is the polar opposite of "glorious".


Baloney. Every collector is out there for that great find. Who ever said "I want Hulk 181 but I insist on paying at least $1000?" You think the dealer that came in behind me at this woman's house asked if he could please pay more for her books? She had a price and I agreed. The buyers of the Edgar Church collection paid pennies on the dollar for the best Golden Age collection uncovered. Any dealer usually offers you 45% of value on key books. Less on most others. Are all dealers low lives?

I stand by what I said.





Your response is possibly even more disgusting than your initial post.

Not all dealers are not "low lives"; it is laughable to try to equate what you did with how other dealers operate.

I'm a dealer and I have ethics.

What you did is not remotely comparable to offering 45% of FMV on keys, and less on other books.

You bought keys at about ONE TENTH OF ONE PERCENT of FMV.

And likely, not all that much more relatively, on the others you picked.

I would have also bought all of the books I could make money on, at $1.50 a piece.

I would not have offered her more, at that time, as offering her more may have queered the whole thing.

What I would have done after buying books that I knew I would sell for total of thousands of dollars, is entirely different.

After I bought the books and left, I would have returned that day or the following day, when the deal was done, and handed her a check for a few hundred bucks.




Any ethical dealer, would have done as I described.
Post 34 IP   flag post
Collector poka private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulPop
I did it and ran. Had a Craigslist ad show up. Woman said she inherited her Uncles comics. About 18 long boxes. She wanted to sell all for $12,000. Good and mediocre stuff. I said I couldn't afford that, would she sell any separately. Her answer was Yes, but they will cost me $1.50 each. I spent about $425, left with Daredevil 1, Avengers 4, 30 early 60's Action comics, old Batman, Metal Men, first Teen Titans appearance, first Spectre, a run of Lois Lanes, ASM 7, 17, 18, X-Men 4, 5, 6 and more. At this point, I can't even remember all of them. I pretty much walked out with all her silver age. Plus a run of Watchmen. Sorry, I suck, I never looked back.

I even managed to beat the local comic dealer there and showed him what I was leaving with. It was glorious.


I am sorry to say but karma will prevail.
Post 35 IP   flag post
Collector CopperAgeKids private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulPop
balonQuote:
Originally Posted by CopperAgeKids
The brazen display of a complete lack of ethics on your part,is pretty damn amazing.

This is the polar opposite of "glorious".




I stand by what I said.



@PaulPop

What is your eBay Seller ID?
Post 36 IP   flag post
It was a one trick pony show but always hilarious. GAC private msg quote post Address this user
something doesn't add up in that story. how many books fit in a long box? About 250 I think...at $1.50 per book x 250 x 18 is just under $7k...not near the $12k asking price. ... that's odd....i dont know, maybe my math is wrong.
Post 37 IP   flag post
Collector Savage_Spawn private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulPop
I did it and ran. Had a Craigslist ad show up. Woman said she inherited her Uncles comics. About 18 long boxes. She wanted to sell all for $12,000. Good and mediocre stuff. I said I couldn't afford that, would she sell any separately. Her answer was Yes, but they will cost me $1.50 each. I spent about $425, left with Daredevil 1, Avengers 4, 30 early 60's Action comics, old Batman, Metal Men, first Teen Titans appearance, first Spectre, a run of Lois Lanes, ASM 7, 17, 18, X-Men 4, 5, 6 and more. At this point, I can't even remember all of them. I pretty much walked out with all her silver age. Plus a run of Watchmen. Sorry, I suck, I never looked back.

I even managed to beat the local comic dealer there and showed him what I was leaving with. It was glorious.


I'm not the one with the ability to tabulate how much money all those books you bought are worth. But you can still rectify this. If it was recently you could go back snd give the lady 10% of total value. If not you could donate it to a worthy charity as well. You have to realize your combo statements "I suck" and "It was glorious" come off as very despicable to decent people.

I've known people like you and Poka is right. Karma can be a bitch....
Post 38 IP   flag post
Collector Wraith private msg quote post Address this user
I don't understand how it's poor ethics, bad karma... The guy asked how much for the comic, the seller told him price and he bought...

When the local electrical store has a clearance down and they offer items at 90% off do you say it is unethical to pay the lower price, even though other places are still selling the items at full price?

The seller decided to sell those comics and she decided she was happy with $1.50 per book and didn't want to go through and research potential value of individual books. Out of ignorance sure, but whose fault is that?

Not the buyers fault at all.. Good on him.. Wish it was me.
Post 39 IP   flag post
Collector CopperAgeKids private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wraith
I don't understand how it's poor ethics, bad karma... The guy asked how much for the comic, the seller told him price and he bought...

When the local electrical store has a clearance down and they offer items at 90% off do you say it is unethical to pay the lower price, even though other places are still selling the items at full price?

The seller decided to sell those comics and she decided she was happy with $1.50 per book and didn't want to go through and research potential value of individual books. Out of ignorance sure, but whose fault is that?

Not the buyers fault at all.. Good on him.. Wish it was me.


That is a false equivalency and it really does not deserve a detailed response.
Post 40 IP   flag post
Collector CopperAgeKids private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Savage_Spawn
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulPop
I did it and ran. Had a Craigslist ad show up. Woman said she inherited her Uncles comics. About 18 long boxes. She wanted to sell all for $12,000. Good and mediocre stuff. I said I couldn't afford that, would she sell any separately. Her answer was Yes, but they will cost me $1.50 each. I spent about $425, left with Daredevil 1, Avengers 4, 30 early 60's Action comics, old Batman, Metal Men, first Teen Titans appearance, first Spectre, a run of Lois Lanes, ASM 7, 17, 18, X-Men 4, 5, 6 and more. At this point, I can't even remember all of them. I pretty much walked out with all her silver age. Plus a run of Watchmen. Sorry, I suck, I never looked back.

I even managed to beat the local comic dealer there and showed him what I was leaving with. It was glorious.


I'm not the one with the ability to tabulate how much money all those books you bought are worth. But you can still rectify this. If it was recently you could go back snd give the lady 10% of total value. If not you could donate it to a worthy charity as well. You have to realize your combo statements "I suck" and "It was glorious" come off as very despicable to decent people.

I've known people like you and Poka is right. Karma can be a bitch....


Hell, even going back and giving her half of 10% of the value of the books would be respectable.
Post 41 IP   flag post
Collector CopperAgeKids private msg quote post Address this user
10% would be very easy to pay her, and fair, considering the value of the books.

If you want to be a real tightwad, than give her 5%.
Post 42 IP   flag post
Collector poka private msg quote post Address this user
the more i think about it the more outraged i get. i bet what happend is that before the uncle passed away he said the collection was worth $12k. not being a collector the woman may have thought that each book has an equal value. so you ended up knowingly buying $11k of books for $425 while she is left with $500 of books maybe getting a total of $1k

would have been a different story if you didn’t pick and choose but what you did was to take unfair advantage of a seller not knowing what she had while you did.

@paulpop - it is scumbags like you who needs to be removed from this market. do the right thing or karma will prevail!
Post 43 IP   flag post
Collector stanley1883 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wraith
I don't understand how it's poor ethics, bad karma... The guy asked how much for the comic, the seller told him price and he bought...

When the local electrical store has a clearance down and they offer items at 90% off do you say it is unethical to pay the lower price, even though other places are still selling the items at full price?

The seller decided to sell those comics and she decided she was happy with $1.50 per book and didn't want to go through and research potential value of individual books. Out of ignorance sure, but whose fault is that?

Not the buyers fault at all.. Good on him.. Wish it was me.


It’s a question of Ethics because it can be viewed of taking advantage of someone due to their lack of knowledge. Now I’m not advocating either way, I’m staying out of this just pointing out that it COULD be argued as a matter of ethics. Again I’m impartial, but just to play the role Socrates and merely argue the other side for arguments sake, the seller does have some fault here. Lets remember a very very brief internet search can tell someone that at least one of those books is valuable. It’s not like it’s a secret. The seller was lazy to an extent. Again, not picking sides, just stating the other point of view
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I swore no more comics, then this happened. PaulPop private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by CopperAgeKids
I'm not the one with the ability to tabulate how much money all those books you bought are worth. But you can still rectify this.


Rectify what? I have no idea where this woman is. It was about 7-8 years ago. She had a price, I paid it. I moved on. Is everyone telling me they would turn down a great deal because it was too cheap? Preach all you want. Everyone hopes for that great deal.
Post 45 IP   flag post
Collector Wraith private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by CopperAgeKids
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wraith
I don't understand how it's poor ethics, bad karma... The guy asked how much for the comic, the seller told him price and he bought...

When the local electrical store has a clearance down and they offer items at 90% off do you say it is unethical to pay the lower price, even though other places are still selling the items at full price?

The seller decided to sell those comics and she decided she was happy with $1.50 per book and didn't want to go through and research potential value of individual books. Out of ignorance sure, but whose fault is that?

Not the buyers fault at all.. Good on him.. Wish it was me.


That is a false equivalency and it really does not deserve a detailed response.
it isn't... People sell things at a garage sale at prices they are happy to part with irrespective of market value..

That's why people go to buy things at garage sales. Lure of a hidden bargain or something wanted but never really wanted to pay full price for.

The guy could offer a bonus payment if he felt like being charitable, but it's not unethical to not do so..

Gosh, I've even watched USA TV shows that endorse this culture
Post 46 IP   flag post
I swore no more comics, then this happened. PaulPop private msg quote post Address this user
So every stamp, coin, magazine, book, doll, toy, baseball card, Magic card, action figure, and whatever else I should buy, I have to look up the price and always pay fair market value? Is it only comics?
Post 47 IP   flag post
Collector doog private msg quote post Address this user
Unethical person justifying unethical behavior. One of the things most irritating about this hobby. It is far too common, although the long term collectors I know personally have ethics, thank God.
You put in a Craigslist ad that you buy comics, I assume. You put yourself out as knowledgeable. And you take horrible advantage of another person. And then throw out an absurd example to justify it.
Go sit on a mountain top and consider.
Post 48 IP   flag post
Collector Wraith private msg quote post Address this user
It would be a dream business where you just collect random stuff and put it on the street verge (no middle man fees - like ebay etc) knowing that whoever bought item would pay exactly what is worth without me doing any homework.

But if you want to get true value for something, you have to do the legwork
Post 49 IP   flag post
Collector doog private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wraith
It would be a dream business where you just collect random stuff and put it on the street verge (no middle man fees - like ebay etc) knowing that whoever bought item would pay exactly what is worth without me doing any homework.

But if you want to get true value for something, you have to do the legwork


The difference for me a Craigslist ad is similar to a store owner. You are the one with knowledge, why rip someone completely off? They can make money, you can make money. I realize modern American ethics are winners and losers in business, but have a bit of a heart, like the Tin Man. Not like Bezos.
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Rock, Paper, Scissors, Lizard, Spock Tedsaid private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by GAC
something doesn't add up in that story. how many books fit in a long box? About 250 I think...at $1.50 per book x 250 x 18 is just under $7k...not near the $12k asking price. ... that's odd....i dont know, maybe my math is wrong.

I noticed this too. IIRC, long boxes hold 300 comics, raw. That might be high, but even at that rate, the $1.50 per comic is still 1/3 less than the $12,000 price.

So ... I guess she was ignorant of the comics' value *and* math.
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Collector Savage_Spawn private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulPop
So every stamp, coin, magazine, book, doll, toy, baseball card, Magic card, action figure, and whatever else I should buy, I have to look up the price and always pay fair market value? Is it only comics?


No, obviously you need a margin. Retailers have to have a certain margin to successfully cover their overhead and make a profit. You failed to mention in your original post that this was 7 or 8 years ago. I would guess the values of these comics were a lot lower back then. I dunno, maybe I overreacted but the tone and tenor of your original post sounded like you gleefully enjoy taking advantage of people. I've known a couple of people that were openly giddy about ripping people off and stealing whatever they could get away with. One of them was an absolute doozy so brazen. I might type up his story a bit at a time and maybe post it here sometime in the future. My biggest problem is time. Seems like this thing called life keeps interrupting my life....
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Collector CopperAgeKids private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Savage_Spawn
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulPop
So every stamp, coin, magazine, book, doll, toy, baseball card, Magic card, action figure, and whatever else I should buy, I have to look up the price and always pay fair market value? Is it only comics?


No, obviously you need a margin. Retailers have to have a certain margin to successfully cover their overhead and make a profit. You failed to mention in your original post that this was 7 or 8 years ago. I would guess the values of these comics were a lot lower back then. I dunno, maybe I overreacted but the tone and tenor of your original post sounded like you gleefully enjoy taking advantage of people. I've known a couple of people that were openly giddy about ripping people off and stealing whatever they could get away with. One of them was an absolute doozy so brazen. I might type up his story a bit at a time and maybe post it here sometime in the future. My biggest problem is time. Seems like this thing called life keeps interrupting my life....



You misread nothing.


The books referenced have certainly increased in FMV from 7-8 years ago, but not by much in relation to his $1.50 per book payments.


Even if the books had doubled in value between 2008 and 2016 (which they have not), he would still paid the seller less than 1% of the fair market value of the books.

Show me a single business that requires a 99% profit margin to operate and I will show you a business operated by criminals.
Post 53 IP   flag post
Collector Wraith private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Savage_Spawn
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulPop
So every stamp, coin, magazine, book, doll, toy, baseball card, Magic card, action figure, and whatever else I should buy, I have to look up the price and always pay fair market value? Is it only comics?


No, obviously you need a margin. Retailers have to have a certain margin to successfully cover their overhead and make a profit. You failed to mention in your original post that this was 7 or 8 years ago. I would guess the values of these comics were a lot lower back then. I dunno, maybe I overreacted but the tone and tenor of your original post sounded like you gleefully enjoy taking advantage of people. I've known a couple of people that were openly giddy about ripping people off and stealing whatever they could get away with. One of them was an absolute doozy so brazen. I might type up his story a bit at a time and maybe post it here sometime in the future. My biggest problem is time. Seems like this thing called life keeps interrupting my life....

how is it "ripping someone off" or "openly stealing" if you pay asking price? The seller didn't have to offer it that cheap but they were comfortable to do so and gladly took the agreed price in exchange for the book.

I doubt the seller would feel ripped off if they ever found out what they could have sold the book for as it wasn't the buyer who misled them. Regretful, yes. Stupid, more than likely. But you can't blame a buyer for paying what you asked for.
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COLLECTOR shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user
For all of you that are outraged, here is a question (and no I’m not taking sides just thinking here)

Would you feel differently if it was a business?

Say you walk into a warehouse sale and it used to be a printing business. They are selling everything off. In the storeroom are plenty of file copy comics and various shit, which are all worth nothing more to the owner than the labor to chuck them in the dumpster.

Do you offer your own back to empty that store room for him for free? Or do you tell him what he has?
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