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CBCS Signature ASP Questions Signatures

Is it really Jim Lee signature?15476

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" . " 16.76K	16.76K Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 3
	Quote: Originally Posted by persianninja Quote: Originally Posted by DrWatson I know there are "witnessed" signatures with yellow labels from the cgc that were never truly witnessed I was reading a bit about their witnessed signatures in that same thread... How does that situation happen where they aren't truly witnessed? Do you mean 1. bribing someone at CGC ... 2. or pretend CGC gets a note from some major dealer that this box of comics that were signed came from a room where pretend Jim Lee said he signed them, they verify it, and send it back to some dealer that sells the 'verified sig' slabs? 3. or some other situation? If its that 2nd scenario, has there been fraudulent cases that happened? or you just saying you are trusting the dealer who says they witnessed the signed comics (so probably not fraudulent but still based on trust). I guess I'm thinking of BigTimeCollectables as I was thinking about getting a signed Batman '89 variant from them. Google search it - plenty of info out there.
	3 years ago	Post 26 • IP flag post

Collector 25	25 persianninja private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by Davethebrave Also it is pretty amusing but the thread feels like a back-forth with specific intent rather than actual questions or concerns. Feels fishy. Sorry, if referring to my posts. I'm new here and just thought about just having a conversation about this process as I been out of comics since I was a 90's kid .
	3 years ago	Post 27 • IP flag post

Collector 4.06K	4.06K etapi65 private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	With sigs you should carefully consider how easy it is to forge some of them. Part of that equation is how variable the persons signature. Jim Lee's fairly simple signature is HIGHLY variable. I got 5 things signed by him at a special Jim Lee signing event Megacon..2018? Every one is very, very different in terms of how pronounced the loops at the bottom, the separation between the humps, the trailing line (or lack there-of), etc... The fairly easy way to just make some loops and humps combined with the extremely high variability of sigs that are absolutely from that person will lead to these issues. Doesn't make it right or increase confidence in the product, but we have to understand what we're looking at. Also, this reddit poster has a youtube video where he shows the whole process. Faking the sig, sending it in and getting it back verified.
	3 years ago	Post 28 • IP flag post

I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this. 74.94K	74.94K GAC private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 6
	Quote: Originally Posted by DrWatson Quote: Originally Posted by GAC Quote: Originally Posted by persianninja >>CBCS/Beckett signature verification is quite elaborate. >>I trust it with very high probability. well I was reading an article about someone on reddit who posted how CBSC approved their fake signature: https://www.reddit.com/r/comicbookcollecting/comments/p49avn/i_sent_a_fake_signature_to_cbcs_to_test_them/ I guess its not 100% bulletproof they can tell if someone forged a signature. Seems like a very difficult endeavor for any company to do with a good forged signature. Updated my post to say CBSC above instead of CGC for accuracy... Just noticed this comic forum is run by CBSC... Sorry for posting, its just something Reddit sent to me this week and related to this topic. Hope it doesn't offend the mods. Did I not look deep enough into that Reddit link? All I read was that someone said they deliberately sent in a forged signature and CBCS verified it. Am I missing something? The problem is that you can't prove a negative. If I didn't like CBCS, I could take an authentic signature, get it graded, and then claim that I forged the signature and that CBCS/Beckett authenticated a forged signature. If the thought that the a signature might be forged bunches your panties, then don't buy it. I know there are "witnessed" signatures with yellow labels from the cgc that were never truly witnessed. One can believe what they like. Just buy what you like. It's all a house of cards any way. @DrWatson Agreed 100%! And no offence to @persianninja but a random post from an unknown someone making a claim that is almost impossible to dispute and/or back up is meaningless. (I totally get that you're just wanting a convo on this which is totally cool and I'm in). Its like @Nuffsaid111's post about Odin and dinosaurs. I will put my money on CBCS/Beckett every single time when a claim like that Reddit post comes up. Its CBCS/Becketts job/duty to know (as much as they possibly can) if a signature is real or not and their reputation is on the line every time. I'm certain that is not taken lightly...random claims made by unknown sources behind keyboards are probably not as concerned about their reputations.
	3 years ago	Post 29 • IP flag post

Collector 2.35K	2.35K Sebastsk8 private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Just to add, I saw that video as well and the reddit posting last week...but I will say a good portion of that reddit sub are collectors but are very anti-grading. Slab posts on there regularly get negative rep.
	3 years ago	Post 30 • IP flag post

Collector 5	5 manouro private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by persianninja Quote: Originally Posted by DrWatson I know there are "witnessed" signatures with yellow labels from the cgc that were never truly witnessed I was reading a bit about their witnessed signatures in that same thread... How does that situation happen where they aren't truly witnessed? Do you mean 1. bribing someone at CGC ... 2. or pretend CGC gets a note from some major dealer that this box of comics that were signed came from a room where pretend Jim Lee said he signed them, they verify it, and send it back to some dealer that sells the 'verified sig' slabs? 3. or some other situation? If its that 2nd scenario, has there been fraudulent cases that happened? or you just saying you are trusting the dealer who says they witnessed the signed comics (so probably not fraudulent but still based on trust). I guess I'm thinking of BigTimeCollectables as I was thinking about getting a signed Batman '89 variant from them. I agree there is no way cgc witnessed everything its impossible and in the other hand there is no way also that beckett (cbcs) can confirm signatures 100% every time. I was just asking the community about my signed comic book. I will never know if it is really signed by Jim Lee anyway I love the cover and it is a great grade. For all of you if you aren't sure about the signature don't buy it unless it is a reasonable price.
	3 years ago	Post 31 • IP flag post

How do I know this? Because I've done it myself. 6.71K	6.71K lawguy1977 private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Just to go back to your original question, it looks like his signature. I've had many books signed by him over the years, but, of course, at the same time, can I tell you that it's absolutely his signature? Of course not.
	3 years ago	Post 32 • IP flag post

Collector 25	25 persianninja private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by etapi65 Part of that equation is how variable the persons signature. Jim Lee's fairly simple signature is HIGHLY variable. oh I definitely believe that. I'm do website/software stuff and only type all day. I don't really write cursive or sign things anymore for the past 25 years and everyone of my sigs will look different. Not to get too political, but thats why I think Signature Verification is crazy to implement for voting if most people don't write cursive anymore as well.
	3 years ago	Post 33 • IP flag post

Collector 5	5 manouro private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by lawguy1977 Just to go back to your original question, it looks like his signature. I've had many books signed by him over the years, but, of course, at the same time, can I tell you that it's absolutely his signature? Of course not. Thank you but you see it's always 4 or 5 curves usually mine have 6 lol
	3 years ago	Post 34 • IP flag post

How do I know this? Because I've done it myself. 6.71K	6.71K lawguy1977 private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	@manouro LOL, good point. That's why I'm not in signature verification. Simple fact remains -- you're taking a risk and putting your trust in someone else if you didn't witness the signature yourself. That being said, I trust the grading companies -- it's their job to witness or verify them. Is there fraud? Sure, just like with any business -- there's the potential for fraud. That's just the nature of the beast, unfortunately. Only way around that is if you witness the signatures yourself. Personally, I like CBCS's verification program -- primarily because I don't always want to feel forced to send in a bunch of signed books at the time they were signed. (Let's face it, slabbing books can get pretty pricey). Some folks don't trust it or like it, and there's nothing wrong with that. At the end of the day, you have to decide what your comfort level is with this process and decide whether it's worth buying a signed copy from someone else or waiting for that opportunity to get the creator to sign it personally in front of you. Only signed book I've ever bought was a book signed by Stan Lee because I missed out. Had it sent in and it came back verified. Otherwise, every signed book I own was signed by the creator and witnessed with my own two eyes. But once again, personally, if I was looking for the right book with a specific creator's signature and it was a verified slab by CBCS, I would have no concerns when buying it. Not sure if that helps or not, just my perspective on VSP.
	3 years ago	Post 35 • IP flag post

Collector 6.46K	6.46K 50AE_DE private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 3
	Quote: Originally Posted by persianninja yeh, and reading some of the further comments its not really on CBCS but Beckett: "CBCS doesn’t verify signatures, Beckett does. Beckett owns CBCS and has been providing signature verification for sports cards and memorabilia for many years. You can be upset about this all you want but it was Beckett who effed up, not CBCS." Beckett is the parent company and it's still a CBCS graded book. Saying Beckett is the one that messed up a CBCS graded book is like saying Blackstone is the one that messed up a CGC graded book. This f'up is on CBCS if it's legit.
	3 years ago	Post 36 • IP flag post

If I could, I would. I swear. 54.05K	54.05K DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 3
	Quote: Originally Posted by lawguy1977 Some folks don't trust it or like it, and there's nothing wrong with that. At the end of the day, you have to decide what your comfort level is with this process and decide whether it's worth buying a signed copy from someone else or waiting for that opportunity to get the creator to sign it personally in front of you. Unless the creator is dead.
	3 years ago	Post 37 • IP flag post

How do I know this? Because I've done it myself. 6.71K	6.71K lawguy1977 private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by lawguy1977 Only signed book I've ever bought was a book signed by Stan Lee because I missed out. Had it sent in and it came back verified. @DrWatson Exactly.
	3 years ago	Post 38 • IP flag post

I'm waiting.... (tapping fingers). Splotches is gettin old! 20.04K	20.04K Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 1
	If there is a Jim Lee forger out there trying to make money, I am sure he/she spent some time reviewing and practicing Jim Lee's signature. A whole lot more autograph reviewing than we have in this thread. So as to the question as to why there are 6 curves instead of 4 or 5, I don't think this is a detail a forger would miss. He/She would ensure 4 or 5 curves with each and every signature he forges to ensure consistency and to get that "yep that's Jim Lee for sure" feedback. So why on earth would a forger who is trying to make money purposely make 6 curves if the majority of Jim Lee signatures have 4 or 5? It makes no sense.
	3 years ago	Post 39 • IP flag post

Collector 577	577 radd76 private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 4
	@Nuffsaid111 @Davethebrave I bet Jim had an extra coffee that morning!
	3 years ago	Post 40 • IP flag post

If I could, I would. I swear. 54.05K	54.05K DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 4
	Or maybe he was tired of signing and got carried away.
	3 years ago	Post 41 • IP flag post

Collector 5	5 manouro private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 3
	Quote: Originally Posted by Nuffsaid111 If there is a Jim Lee forger out there trying to make money, I am sure he/she spent some time reviewing and practicing Jim Lee's signature. A whole lot more autograph reviewing than we have in this thread. So as to the question as to why there are 6 curves instead of 4 or 5, I don't think this is a detail a forger would miss. He/She would ensure 4 or 5 curves with each and every signature he forges to ensure consistency and to get that "yep that's Jim Lee for sure" feedback. So why on earth would a forger who is trying to make money purposely make 6 curves if the majority of Jim Lee signatures have 4 or 5? It makes no sense. Yes probably
	3 years ago	Post 42 • IP flag post

Collector 1.18K	1.18K teacha777 private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Anybody willing to try and forge a signature to see if it gets verified? Don’t answer on the thread of course
	3 years ago	Post 43 • IP flag post

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