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Pedigree/Certificate of Authenticity question14885

Collector brysb private msg quote post Address this user
A question about some RAW comics I recently purchased that came with Certificate of Authenticity papers. I have a few comics that have COA "The Savannah Collection" & 1 that has "David Toth Copy", so my question is...how do I prove these COA's actually go with the copies I received? I suspect no foul play since the copies are all pristine, but if I submit to CGC or CBCS do these COA's mean anything, will they be indicated on the graded label as "Savannah or Toth"? The Action Comics #434 that came with the "Toth" Certificate also came with a CGC label that had been broken out of the case & no indication on that label mentioned it was from a David Toth Copy. For those more enlightened I would appreciate some advice.






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Collector cesidio private msg quote post Address this user
Original bill of sale. Letter from the auction house it was purchased from. Every bit of Providence you can find and aquire will help. Unless it's a verified signature or you saw it signed yourself 100% is going to be next to impossible to prove. When I get anything signed I always ask the person(s) signing if it's OK to take a picture of them and the signed product on top of keeping the receipts and promo material from the event. Be wary of raw anything with no paper trail. I got burned on a Ted Williams baseball years ago. Noting to do at that point but curse the seller.
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Collector Bronte private msg quote post Address this user
@cesidio

I was under impression that COA and any proof was invalid with submissions. Unless there are marks on tbe book that ate typical of that pedigree, I thought it was a lost cause?....
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Collector cesidio private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronte
@cesidio

I was under impression that COA and any proof was invalid with submissions. Unless there are marks on tbe book that ate typical of that pedigree, I thought it was a lost cause?....


If bought at an action house receipt should have lot # any deserving information. But you are correct for verified signature through cbcs all the paper work is usless. Just need to minimize risk as much as possible
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Collector DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user
Savannah is a recognized pedigree. Just submit the cert with the book. I don't recall Toth being a recognized pedigree.
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Collector brysb private msg quote post Address this user
These were bought by a reputable dealer (Worldwide Comics), but I bought these copies based on actual condition which I am very happy with, the COA's are nice to have as an added bonus. I have bought 3 comics recently from Worldwide Comics that included the "Savannah" COA so I tend to look for those especially when ordering from this site because so far the copies have been near pristine. But that makes sense the COA would have no merit with CGC or CBCS if sent in to be graded.

Thanks for the responses guys!
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Collector DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by brysb
These were bought by a reputable dealer (Worldwide Comics), but I bought these copies based on actual condition which I am very happy with, the COA's are nice to have as an added bonus. I have bought 3 comics recently from Worldwide Comics that included the "Savannah" COA so I tend to look for those especially when ordering from this site because so far the copies have been near pristine. But that makes sense the COA would have no merit with CGC or CBCS if sent in to be graded.

Savannah is a recognized pedigree.


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Collector brysb private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrWatson
Savannah is a recognized pedigree. Just submit the cert with the book. I don't recall Toth being a recognized pedigree.


So if I submit the "Savannah" certificate the Grading Company will just assume it goes with the copy I also submit? Couldn't an unscrupulous person switch out a lesser graded copy and submit it with the Certificate? But then again, if the copy submitted is not sharp like most Savannah copies then that would be a reason it gets rejected? Ha, I may be overthinking this.
Post 8 IP   flag post
Collector DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user
If it makes you feel better, submit a copy of the invoice from WW Comics along with the certificate. Either grading company has seen enough copies of almost any given pedigree to typically notice if the copy has been switched.

I had some Mass Copy Avengers pedigreed based on a series of emails back to the original owner. No certificates at all.
Post 9 IP   flag post
Collector CatCovers private msg quote post Address this user
If I remember right, Savannah is one of the pedigrees with no identifying marks of any kind. Chain of custody and COAs are the only way to track them.
Post 10 IP   flag post
Collector brysb private msg quote post Address this user
I will make sure to hang on to my Worldwide Comics receipts as well...just looked at them & it clearly spells out "Savannah Copy" after the specific Title/issue number & grade.
Post 11 IP   flag post
Collector southerncross private msg quote post Address this user
The savannah certificate is all you need.

About 15 years ago I sent into cgc raw copies from Big Apple pedigree that just had the pedigree on a sticker stuck to the mylar snugs the books were in.

I also sent in later Boston copy and a Oakland to cgc and they were all recognized.

I did drop off at cbcs a Boston copy of TTA 76 and it wasn't put on the label.

So from my own personal experience I would just send the pedigrees to cgc.




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Collector CatCovers private msg quote post Address this user
I have a Northford copy of Jumbo Comics in at CBCS right now. I'm presuming it'll be recognized; Northford copies all have that distinctive stamp on the back cover.
Post 13 IP   flag post
Collector southerncross private msg quote post Address this user
@CatCovers good luck

Myself I'll go cgc for pedigree recognition.
Post 14 IP   flag post
Collector tonyz58 private msg quote post Address this user
Recently submitted Superman 123 for signature verification etc. and it had a COA indicating a numbered signing(375/500). CBCS will grade and verify but will not accept COA.
Post 15 IP   flag post
Collector DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user
COAs for pedigree collections are completely different than COAs for autographed books.
Post 16 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user
@DrWatson I’m curious in what way? Pedigree COAs seem to vary widely from collection to collection so I’m not sure how they better establish authenticity than any other CoA
Post 17 IP   flag post
Collector DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user
It's just different. The certificate for a pedigree is stating that this specific book came from a certain collection books. Those books typically share some sort of commonality that set them apart from other books and each grading company probably has at least one person that would be familiar with those traits. The grading companies verify pedigree submissions just like an authentication service verifies signatures. They can also request that you supply a chain of ownership for the book(s). Also, if someone submitted a bone white copy of a Big Apple book for pedigree designation, it would probably raise suspicion as those books are known for less than stellar page quality. I'm sure there have been some that didn't receive the requested designation.

It's a different mind set. It's hard to explain. Any one can sit in their office and crank out COAs for a forged signature on any random book. You would have to find a specific book that met the same criteria as the rest of the collection in order to squeeze it in as a pert of a pedigree when it wasn't. That used to be the reason the cgc wouldn't pedigree collections in to the Copper Age. It would be easier to add books to it that didn't belong.

Also, a lot of the older, established pedigrees were pedigrees long before the cgc came along. I'm not saying that there isn't a comic book out there sitting a pedigree holder that isn't supposed to be, but I would wager that it is a whole lot less than the books out there with signatures that aren't authentic.

I guess pedigrees and signature do have one thing in common. At some point, you have to have faith that the information printed on the label is correct or that you are willing to accept that it is correct.

Actually, people do that with graded books all the time. You are putting your faith in the ability of the person who graded it to know the difference between a X.X and any other X.X book. Sometimes they're right. Sometimes they're wrong. Who's to say that their opinion is any better than yours?

I know, long winded and rambling. My English teacher would give me an "F." lol.
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Collector tonyz58 private msg quote post Address this user
good info is always appreciated thanks
Post 19 IP   flag post
Collector Siggy private msg quote post Address this user
This is the only COA I have claiming to be a pedigree, but as I understand it it's really just a nice OO collection, and not considered a true pedigree.

I always find it funny when no attempt seems to have been made to find someone with decent penmanship.


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Collector southerncross private msg quote post Address this user
@Siggy that's pretty handwriting compared to this.




They also had to use a red ink biro as well.🤣
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Collector DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user
The Northlands were back in the day before the cgc. It was colored so it wouldn't be so easy to just photocopy.
Post 22 IP   flag post
Collector DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user
That and comic dealers aren't known for their penmanship.
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