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Verified now yellow labels?12314

Collector mediaslave private msg quote post Address this user
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Originally Posted by Darkseid_of_town
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Originally Posted by mediaslave
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Originally Posted by Darkseid_of_town
Gibberish



Ok then, show your example. I clearly stated that I am aware of why I posted CGC vs CBCS, and in truth, I like CBCS as a company much more.

And I mock anyone that makes absolutely absurd statements like yours. Bring up something logical, and I'll counter the same. Right now, you're sounding like the flat-earther of CBCS.
As I said dismissing others comments as gibberish wont earn you knowledge today. When you learn to be more polite , and you learn to discuss without the insults and attitude you let me know, and I will be glad to take the time to show you how the comic marketplace works. Until then se la vie...


Cool. And when you learn to post replies based on facts, or even just acknowledge common industry trends and not just rely on fanboy fanaticism, I won't have to dismiss your posts as overly long verbal diarrhea.
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Collector mediaslave private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkseid_of_town
umm why would you even consider trying to buy slabbed comics from ten feet away? Lets also try it underwater, at the north pole and perhaps on the largest moon of mars for effect....if you are spending your cash, you should be looking directly at the slab, examining the BOOK, since that's what you are purchasing, and then the slab and label.
Honestly this seems like some butt hurt you have for them rejecting your possible label suggestions more than anything logical , sensible or even useful.



Omg. Are you 90 or something? That's the only reason I can think of to explain the absurdity of your posts. Do you sniff each book as well, one at a time?

I don't know what kind of glacially slow pace you live at, but when I'm at a show and glancing at a wall of books, I take the whole wall in at seconds. And in those seconds, I can tell what's interesting to me and what isn't. I can spot yellow label 9.8s, and ask to see them. I can dismiss red labels or purples or greens or whatever else. Know why? Because that's how the human brain works, as evidenced by every bloody product design on the market. In under a second your brain can identify and tag objects that are interesting to you and familiar. It will then relay that info to your conscious brain so you can make decisions and act on them.

When I'm at a show and there are dozens of booths to hit, this saves me time and effort, AND keeps me from wasting the time of the vendor asking to see everything.

My butthurt, as you say, is actually disappointment at having to counter some of the most nonsensical and illogical garbage I have seen today.
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Thank you sir. May I have another? Siggy private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkseid_of_town
umm why would you even consider trying to buy slabbed comics from ten feet away?


For me, dealers rarely let me join them behind their tables, so I can't see the print very well.
Dealers that mix their Yellows together won't get my money. I'm hoping though that one convention of being asked if "that" is verified or witnessed by two or three people every 2 minutes will make this a non factor.

Time will tell.
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Collector mediaslave private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Siggy
LOGIC AND A CLEAR GRASP OF REALITY


Exactly! Thank you!


*high five*
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Collector Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user
Ha well the dealers I do buy from usually ask me back to their table and sometimes let me watch while they get a sandwich or something. I only buy from a few who are old friends at shows though.
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Masculinity takes a holiday. EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user
Regardless who wins the argument, no one has explained how any of this should matter to CBCS when making a business decision. Until someone can explain how this decision is bad for their business, it really doesn't matter where one stands when viewing books or at what speed they hope to move through the show, or whether one prefers sniffing the cases to licking. Win or lose, it's an irrelevant argument until you can tie it back to a loss of business for CBCS.
Post 131 IP   flag post
I'd like to say I still turned out alright, but that would be a lie. flanders private msg quote post Address this user
@EbaySeller good points, I can't foresee this doing anything other than increasing CBCS's business and customer satisfaction (certainly not @mediaslave satsifaction), but the overall satisfaction will increase.

And let's be honest, @mediaslave won't be happy until one of his label designs is implemented, no matter how good a non-mediaslave future CBCS label may look. Out of spite, I may even hire someone to design a state of the art CBCS label at my cost that CBCS can use for their business free of charge.
Post 132 IP   flag post
Joined The Club Steverogers11 private msg quote post Address this user
@mediaslave made some good points so did our very own dark angel. Let’s just sit back see what happens. Too much bitching back and forth lately it seems
Post 133 IP   flag post
Thank you sir. May I have another? Siggy private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by flanders
@EbaySeller good points, I can't foresee this doing anything other than increasing CBCS's business and customer satisfaction

From this angle I can see your point. I'm sure once CBCS gets paid for slabbing a book, whether it sells at a convention or not isn't a concern.
Post 134 IP   flag post
Leftover Sundae Gnus CatmanAmerica private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by mediaslave
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkseid_of_town
umm why would you even consider trying to buy slabbed comics from ten feet away? Lets also try it underwater, at the north pole and perhaps on the largest moon of mars for effect....if you are spending your cash, you should be looking directly at the slab, examining the BOOK, since that's what you are purchasing, and then the slab and label.
Honestly this seems like some butt hurt you have for them rejecting your possible label suggestions more than anything logical , sensible or even useful.



Omg. Are you 90 or something? That's the only reason I can think of to explain the absurdity of your posts. Do you sniff each book as well, one at a time?

I don't know what kind of glacially slow pace you live at, but when I'm at a show and glancing at a wall of books, I take the whole wall in at seconds. And in those seconds, I can tell what's interesting to me and what isn't. I can spot yellow label 9.8s, and ask to see them. I can dismiss red labels or purples or greens or whatever else. Know why? Because that's how the human brain works, as evidenced by every bloody product design on the market. In under a second your brain can identify and tag objects that are interesting to you and familiar. It will then relay that info to your conscious brain so you can make decisions and act on them.

When I'm at a show and there are dozens of booths to hit, this saves me time and effort, AND keeps me from wasting the time of the vendor asking to see everything.

My butthurt, as you say, is actually disappointment at having to counter some of the most nonsensical and illogical garbage I have seen today.


I’m gonna make a wild guess that your day job is not that of a Canadian diplomat.

No offense intended, but I must differ with you on several points. First of all, Darkseid_of_town’s post made perfect sense. It’s the logic of a comic book collector as opposed to that of a label-centric (eccentric?) collector. Sorry, that’s just how your response came across. If I’m in error here please correct my misimpression.

Of the two principle grading companies CBCS provides the best collector focused service. The proof is in the recent series of moves to a cleanly sealed, sturdier, even clearer holder design (sans Newton rings) and modest label changes that provide grade enhancement without detriment to aesthetic design. Combining autograph labels into a single, uniform color makes good sense.

As pointed out in an earlier poster’s response, verified grading costs more than witnessed grading because it’s a premium service option that places emphasis on autograph authentication. This actually enhances what CBCS promises to deliver on as a company by providing a professional museum-quality service to the collecting public.

The fact that witnessed books have more appeal currently is just the nature of our “stand in line to meet the pro celebrity” cult of personality. I get it, ...unemployed artists and other celebs need to make a living too, but the faddishness of witnessed signature collecting does have a shelf life. Bear with me on this.

If witnessed signature collecting has a cultish following, that doesn’t bode well for long term viability. If everyone has signed copies of a book whose signatory is no longer popular in the collecting sense then those books may have less value than unsigned copies. The value of signature collecting is in the rarity of those autographs. And that is the point that’s been overlooked in this discussion.

Leaving that aside, the fact that some collectors may be too lazy to ask a dealer to take a book off their wall for a closer inspection or just too shy to request coming around the table for a closer look sounds more like personal excuses than reasons to complain about label colors.

In the long run the verification of signatures will be of greater consequence to collectors. You can mark my words on that ...as my 90 year old grand-pappy would’ve said if he were still around.

Have a good day and please don’t let the craziness get to you.
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Thank you sir. May I have another? Siggy private msg quote post Address this user
And I don't think for a second my not playing will matter to CBCS. Again, they already got paid for slabbing "your" books.

If for some reason the secondary market doesn't like it, how long before that makes an impression?

Time will tell.

I prefer a witnessed signature anymore, if not getting them myself. Too much risk, too many scammers, and nothing guaranteed with the New Red.
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Collector mediaslave private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flanders


And let's be honest, @mediaslave won't be happy until one of his label designs is implemented, no matter how good a non-mediaslave future CBCS label may look. Out of spite, I may even hire someone to design a state of the art CBCS label at my cost that CBCS can use for their business free of charge.


Not true at all. I don't care if they use my label or not. Keep in mind, I did these free of charge as a means to hopefully spur them into action. Their labels are just not good, which is not just my opinion but also feedback from so many dealers and buyers. I don't know how it is where you are, but I can tell you in Toronto it's hard to find a store that will actively promote cbcs as a service. All of them will tell you that they can you cbcs but don't. And when you ask why it's usually because there's less demand, and then the thing that drives me crazy is when you ask why there's less demand the answer is usually something like I don't know I just don't like them. It's infuriating, especially knowing what a good job cbcs does. But it's also a common problem across all industries were consumers can't tell you why they don't like something, but they can tell you that they don't like it.

I really like cbcs and want them to succeed. But they all have one hell of an uphill battle ahead of them trying to unseat cgc. I mean the word cgc is actually becoming a description on getting books slabbed, similar to how people ask for a Kleenex instead of a tissue. All this despite offering, imo, a worse product than CBCS.
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Thank you sir. May I have another? Siggy private msg quote post Address this user
I have no problem asking to look at A book, but if I see several spread around, and I can't tell if they're guaranteed or professional guesses, Its easier to look for yellow labels with the CGC logo. That difference is easy to spot from across the table.
Post 138 IP   flag post
Collector mediaslave private msg quote post Address this user
@catmanQuote:
Originally Posted by CatmanAmerica
GOOD, WELL THOUGHT OUT COUNTER POINTS


Your counterpoints are all well thought-out and well-positioned, but I must take issue with a few of them and must respectfully debate you. :-)

The point about asking a dealer to pull a buck off a wall for you to inspect it is of course viable. What's not viable though is when you have 20 other people at your booth during a popular show asking through the same thing. It's just not reasonable to expect a dealer to have to pull down these books so that you can see whether they're witnessed or verified. All it does is out of considerable amount of work for the dealer side and frustration for the consumer side. Imagine me having to ask some poor dealer out of their busy show to pull down 20 different books just to find out that they're verified and I want witnessed only. Eventually they're going to end up punching me in the face or telling me to get lost. And I can't blame them.

As to your point about verified being a more Premier auction due to the extra cost, sorry but again I disagree with that wholeheartedly. Verifying the signatures takes more work, so of course it should cost more. That doesn't mean it's a better product. Having a witness watch the signature happen in real time is much less work than having to have somebody going to compare that signature versus a hundred other examples to try and figure out if it's real. I still argue that, except in the situation where a creator has passed on or will not sign for a witness, a verified signature is a second-place option to a witness signature.

And while you may point out that you think meeting the creators and get the signatures live is a temporary thing, I can't see anything that backs that up at all. In fact it's considerably the opposite. Now the creators understand that shows and signatures can be an additional source of income, combined with the fact that attendance at the shows is now Rising every year, I can't see this fading anytime soon. Or at the very least I don't see any indication of it. That's not even taking into account the rise of facilitator is that a popped up. If meeting creators and getting their signatures wasn't popular or was on the decline, you wouldn't have companies that actually as intermediaries between the two because I wouldn't be able to make a profit.

And that's not even getting into the nostalgic part of it. I can only speak for myself personally but I love media creators that I've admired for so long in getting your signatures on books, then getting them graded I know I'm not not only do I have a signature from somebody that I've been lying for so long but hopefully they come back nine 8 and I know I've got the best possible copy I could get. And judging solely by the lineups at the shows to meet these creators, I'm not the only one
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Masculinity takes a holiday. EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Siggy
If for some reason the secondary market doesn't like it, how long before that makes an impression?


@Siggy That's probably the strongest argument I could think of against the color change. The worst case scenario I could imagine would be a few dealers saying "I don't want CBCS to witness my signatures because the label is the same color as the Verified signature". I don't see this happening any more than having Restored books in a blue label would keep dealers from submitting non-restored books.
Post 140 IP   flag post
It was a one trick pony show but always hilarious. GAC private msg quote post Address this user
@mediaslave saying their labels are just not good is an opinion, your opinion. nothing more. I happen to really like their labels. I'm betting the majority of management that chose the label design thinks it's great. I bet lots of boardies here think its great too. I don't think they're going to change the label because some people dont like it.

Being from Toronto myself but now in our nation's capital I've never heard comics shops saying they dont like cbcs. CBCS is the better product and true collectors know this.
Post 141 IP   flag post
Collector mediaslave private msg quote post Address this user
@Siggy will be interesting to watch the results.

On one hand you're going to make a bunch of people who have read labels happy, along with people who have books that are signed always wanted a great on there but didn't want to deal with the red label.

On the other hand, I could completely erode the value of the CBCS yellow. Always hard to tell with consumers
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Masculinity takes a holiday. EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by mediaslave
On the other hand, I could completely erode the value of the CBCS yellow


@mediaslave If this move were to completely erode the value of CBCS yellow it would be time for me to get out of comic collecting and find a hobby that's not filled with morons. Relax, evryting go be aerie mon.
Post 143 IP   flag post
Collector mediaslave private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by GAC
@mediaslave saying their labels are just not good is an opinion, your opinion. nothing more. I happen to really like their labels. I'm betting the majority of management that chose the label design thinks it's great. I bet lots of boardies here think its great too. I don't think they're going to change the label because some people dont like it.

Being from Toronto myself but now in our nation's capital I've never heard comics shops saying they dont like cbcs. CBCS is the better product and true collectors know this.


What do you do for a living? I'm creative and design lead in a digital marketing specialist. So, while you say that it's just my opinion, I feel I have a little bit of a reason for that opinion. :-)

Besides it's not just my opinion. Ask around, you know online, and cbcs is label is always adjusted II especially among the major facilitators. I don't particularly like the Cgc label on myself, but I think it's better. To be fair oh, I think cbcs is way better than pgx. But the cbcs label, especially the latest version, is just very bizarre in its design. The alignment is really weird, negative space channels are off, but it's just not as easy to read. I do like their number though, I think they chose a great font for that. Very easy to read, yet strong.
Post 144 IP   flag post
Collector mediaslave private msg quote post Address this user
Oh, and I didn't say the shops don't necessarily like cbcs, I said that they don't offer them. I have never been in a shop where they have listed cbcs as an option voluntarily. I don't know if that has anything to do with cbcs as a brand or if it has something to do with the margins they make.

As I've stated multiple times I think cbcs offers a superior product. I think they're grading is more consistent, the cases are better calling the customer service is always been great for me personally, and I very much like the people that I've met working for cbcs. But I'm also very much aware that the superior product does not necessarily guide the market. Sometimes the market demands what the market demands, especially if there are few outside sources to break that momentum.
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I'm good with splotches. Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user
I'm wondering what someone from outside the comic world would think if they saw this thread and the meltdowns associated with the color of a label.
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Masculinity takes a holiday. EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuffsaid111
I'm wondering what someone from outside the comic world would think if they saw this thread and the meltdowns associated with the color of a label


Nothing that they don't already say about us comic book guys.
Post 147 IP   flag post
If I could, I would. I swear. DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuffsaid111
I'm wondering what someone from outside the comic world would think if they saw this thread and the meltdowns associated with the color of a label.

The same thing some of us within the comic world are thinking...
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Thank you sir. May I have another? Siggy private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuffsaid111
I'm wondering what someone from outside the comic world would think if they saw this thread and the meltdowns associated with the color of a label.


This is nothing.
Remember the outrage some on the forum felt because they weren't consulted before the label change?
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Thank you sir. May I have another? Siggy private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Siggy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkseid_of_town
umm why would you even consider trying to buy slabbed comics from ten feet away?


For me, dealers rarely let me join them behind their tables, so I can't see the print very well.
Dealers that mix their Yellows together won't get my money. I'm hoping though that one convention of being asked if "that" is verified or witnessed by two or three people every 2 minutes will make this a non factor.

Time will tell.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkseid_of_town
Ha well the dealers I do buy from usually ask me back to their table and sometimes let me watch while they get a sandwich or something. I only buy from a few who are old friends at shows though.


"Ha"? LOL
I didn't realize we're now talking about acquaintances. I meant people I never met.

Even though I disagree changing the VSP label to the same color as the ASP is needed (I still think Green VSP is better looking than Red), it really isn't a big deal. They can do whatever they like, of course.

Slabs make up maybe 1% of my collection, and this probably won't make an impact on me unless it's at a convention. MCS, forums (I almost typed CGC Sales Forum lol), and maybe eBay will be easier to sift through for Witnessed books (unless they keyword spam), but at shows I really would feel I'm being a pain if I have to interrupt a dealer every few minutes just to find out if it's VSP or ASP.

IF it's easy to tell them apart from a distance, great! That's my only concern- Being able to tell them apart if a seller mixes them up to maximize exposure. Can they do that? Absolutely. Do I have to play along? Nope. If identifying a book is more difficult than seeing cover, grade, and whether it's Universal/Restored, I'll move on. If the only difference between the two Yellows will be print, then I'll look at logos. That's the way I shop. Others spend more time. Neither of us are wrong.
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Collector Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user
I seldom buy from unknown dealers at shows and cons ...the few shows in the middle of nowhere out here, that we have, its always the same dealers, people I have bought books from for forty years.
it isn't uncommon for me to go up to a dealers table here, and he will tell me come around, yours are in a short box right here....they know what I am looking for or will most likely bite at so it saves a lot of the drama mentioned above by some . A few even have it all priced and figured out what they want so we go from there....makes life simpler .

For me there are few books I would care about buying signed, so its generally all blues I am seeing for labels. If something has a yellow, and it is a book that has interest for me signed, then I might ask to see it and check its credentials.There are few autographs I would actively seek on books nowdays...I have my Kirby, steranko, Lee , Lieber and Adams, Romita Jr, Mcfarlane, George perez, etc. signatures just aren't my cup of tea so the entire drama surrounding them just doesn't matter that much to me.
As you yourself have said a few times Siggy, I don't really visit shows and cons to get comics..too expensive there.
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Leftover Sundae Gnus CatmanAmerica private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuffsaid111
I'm wondering what someone from outside the comic world would think if they saw this thread and the meltdowns associated with the color of a label.


Heck, beyond the comic world meltdowns are much worse. In fact, insular attitudes are such that you can't even get a consensus on wearing masks outside, much less which color.
.
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Collector monjoody private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by CatmanAmerica
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuffsaid111
I'm wondering what someone from outside the comic world would think if they saw this thread and the meltdowns associated with the color of a label.


Heck, beyond the comic world meltdowns are much worse. In fact, insular attitudes are such that you can't even get a consensus on wearing masks outside, much less which color.
.


Haha yeah. Go onto a guitar forum and shout "Alnico 5 magnets are the best," sit back and enjoy the show.
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Collector mediaslave private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuffsaid111
I'm wondering what someone from outside the comic world would think if they saw this thread and the meltdowns associated with the color of a label.



Actually, just for giggles, I sent the details of the label change to a few non-comic marketing people I know. They are pretty fancy, much more so than I am.

All agreed that changing the red to yellow feels like a transparent tactic to artificially boost the value of the verified label in order to spur sales and hopefully boost the image of the verified label vs witnessed to the market as a whole.

ITs a very common tactic across many, many product types. And in all cases, the point is to muddy things for the user and blur differences between differently tiered or viewed products. Again, like sticking AMG on the back of low end (for them) Mercedes car that doesn't really deserve it.




Ok so to look at it another way, break it down to pros and cons.



What are the pros of changing it to yellow? What are the cons?

What about changing verified from red to something else better received? Pros and cons of that?

It becomes pretty simple once you look at it like that.
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Collector mediaslave private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by monjoody
Haha yeah. Go onto a guitar forum and shout "Alnico 5 magnets are the best," sit back and enjoy the show.



I have no idea what this means, but now all I want to know why the hell guitars use magnets.
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