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Wolverine #80 X-23 Cameo?847

Collector ThisLand private msg quote post Address this user
I have a pretty nice copy of Wolverine #80 and I've seen some sellers on eBay state that there is a cameo appearance of X-23 in a test tube (in the form of Wolverine's DNA)

Anyone know if this is an accepted "cameo appearance" in the collecting community? I noticed it is not mentioned in Overstreet and not noted on the few CGC labels I've seen.

Couldn't find any CBCS slabs to check if they note it.
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COLLECTOR DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
I don't know, but DNA in a test tube seems a pretty far stretch in my mind.
Post 2 IP   flag post
Collector ThisLand private msg quote post Address this user
@DarthLego Agreed. But it does seem at least somewhat legitimate based on this panel.





How do I find out if CBCS would note something like this on a label?
Post 3 IP   flag post
Collector Oxbladder private msg quote post Address this user
there is a test tube labeled X-23 but I do not think the creators of X-23 have ever mentioned or been asked if that one panel was used as inspiration for the naming of the character. In that particular issue of Wolverine that one vial is saved while in the origin of X-23 it was the 23rd embryo, that was viable (once they removed the damaged Y gene). Now the samples may have come from that one tube but more than likely if it is anything other than coincidence it is more likely paying homage to that issue.

Until Kyle and Yost (or Quesada) chime in it is merely people trying to add value to an otherwise cheapo book. I most certain do not and will not consider this book as tied to the mythos of X-23 until the creators of Laura Kinney chime in. Even then I wouldn't call it first appearance or cameo since that would be male DNA not the viable embryo of X-23.
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Collector ThisLand private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oxbladder

Until Kyle and Yost (or Quesada) chime in it is merely people trying to add value to an otherwise cheapo book. I most certain do not and will not consider this book as tied to the mythos of X-23 until the creators of Laura Kinney chime in. Even then I wouldn't call it first appearance or cameo since that would be male DNA not the viable embryo of X-23.


Trying and succeeding apparently.

Most of the eBay listings for this book now state the X-23 "appearance" in the title.

What should be a dollar bin book is selling for $20 or more even raw.
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Collector Oxbladder private msg quote post Address this user
@ThisLand sad but true. Anyone familiar with the actual X-23 origin would know how much bunk it all its though.

There's a sucker born every minute.
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Collector Despain private msg quote post Address this user
It's a fun issue with Ian Churchill art. I think it's neat that it came out in 1994, almost a decade before X-23 debuted in that episode of X-Men Evolution.

That said, I don't think it is a cameo. At least I don't consider it a cameo. Still a fun to have for X-23 fans.
Post 7 IP   flag post
Collector ThisLand private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Despain
It's a fun issue with Ian Churchill art. I think it's neat that it came out in 1994, almost a decade before X-23 debuted in that episode of X-Men Evolution.

That said, I don't think it is a cameo. At least I don't consider it a cameo. Still a fun to have for X-23 fans.


Nice way to look at it. I guess we can take things too seriously sometimes with collecting. But I guess this could just be a fun little piece to someone's X-23 collection.
Post 8 IP   flag post
Collector Oxbladder private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Despain
It's a fun issue with Ian Churchill art. I think it's neat that it came out in 1994, almost a decade before X-23 debuted in that episode of X-Men Evolution.

That said, I don't think it is a cameo. At least I don't consider it a cameo. Still a fun to have for X-23 fans.


For some X-23 fans maybe

Again that is a vial of Logan's DNA not the 23 attempt at producing a viable embryo.
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COLLECTOR DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
@ThisLand are people actually paying that amount, or are the copies sitting unsold at that asking price?
Post 10 IP   flag post
Collector MR_SigS private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthLego
@ThisLand are people actually paying that amount, or are the copies sitting unsold at that asking price?


Link to Wolverine #80's for sale on eBay. Highest to Lowest

Link to recent Wolverine #80 sales on eBay. Highest to Lowest
Post 11 IP   flag post
Collector Despain private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oxbladder
Quote:
Originally Posted by Despain
It's a fun issue with Ian Churchill art. I think it's neat that it came out in 1994, almost a decade before X-23 debuted in that episode of X-Men Evolution.

That said, I don't think it is a cameo. At least I don't consider it a cameo. Still a fun to have for X-23 fans.


For some X-23 fans maybe

Again that is a vial of Logan's DNA not the 23 attempt at producing a viable embryo.
k

Oh excuse me. It's fun for SOME X-23 fans. 🙄
Post 12 IP   flag post
Collector Oxbladder private msg quote post Address this user
@DarthLego yes people (over)pay to purchase this and have done so for a few years now. Mind you I am sure you can still find cheap copies out there. I think my LCS had/has one for a few bucks.
Post 13 IP   flag post
Collector SLD1016 private msg quote post Address this user
I actually picked up a copy of this in a bulk buy that was slabbed by PGX and the lable states X-23 first appearance (test tube) or something to that effect. Then again, it is PGX.
Post 14 IP   flag post
Collector MR_SigS private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by SLD1016
I actually picked up a copy of this in a bulk buy that was slabbed by PGX and the lable states X-23 first appearance (test tube) or something to that effect. Then again, it is PGX.


They probably put that on a couple labels, just to play it safe lol

Found 2 in my collection- In fact, it turns out that was the last issue I actively collected when they were published. Usually I would have stopped at one issue shy of a [later]hot book. Not this time.

fwiw, I don't consider this a 1st app. And unless the creators specify the test tube IS in reference to X-23, and was always meant to from the beginning, I don't really think much of it. But the market will decide if it's hot or not, 1st app or not.

Just like Hulk #181 (which of course, a 1st app it is not, but is hot).
Post 15 IP   flag post
Collector ThisLand private msg quote post Address this user
@MR_SigS You bring up an interesting point. Why do first appearance cameos seem to be be so undervalued when compared to first "full" appearances?

The true first appearance of Wolverine is Hulk #180. Yet #181 is the issue everyone wants (and pays up for).

The only example of a cameo that I can think of that eclipses the value of the first full appearance is Galactus in FF #48 & #49. But I'm assuming Silver Surfer has a little something to do with that.
Post 16 IP   flag post
Collector MR_SigS private msg quote post Address this user
@ThisLand There's also Darkseid's cameo in SPJO #134 eclipsing Forever People #1. I think I read that print runs might be a factor in that one.

I have no problem with Hulk 181 being more valuable than 180; It has the hot new hero on the cover and throughout the entire book. Expecting #180 to be more valuable is like saying the 1st app/cameo automatically equates to more value, and I don't think that should be the case in all situations. And that's where the Market comes in.

Of course, 181 did have lots of help over the years from publications stating it to BE the 1st app.

I think 180 will get its day. :popcorn:
Post 17 IP   flag post
Collector ThisLand private msg quote post Address this user
@MR_SigS I agree. I don't expect #180 to be more valuable or even as valuable as #181 but the disparity is something I can't quite understand. The cover is probably a factor but I think the cover to FF #49 is miles better than the cover for #48.

I also agree that #180 will someday close the gap a little.
Post 18 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by MR_SigS
@ThisLand There's also Darkseid's cameo in SPJO #134 eclipsing Forever People #1. I think I read that print runs might be a factor in that one.

I have no problem with Hulk 181 being more valuable than 180; It has the hot new hero on the cover and throughout the entire book. Expecting #180 to be more valuable is like saying the 1st app/cameo automatically equates to more value, and I don't think that should be the case in all situations. And that's where the Market comes in.

Of course, 181 did have lots of help over the years from publications stating it to BE the 1st app.

I think 180 will get its day. :popcorn:

Gambit's in a similar situation. He appears in X-Men annual 14 in July then X-Men 266 in August but the 266 is the one everyone wants. And it's not even a cameo or a brief last page appearance in the Annual. Gambit is seen throughout the story, is mentioned by name and even has some speaking lines. But he's not being heralded on the cover :/
Post 19 IP   flag post
Collector MR_SigS private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by dielinfinite
Quote:
Originally Posted by MR_SigS
@ThisLand There's also Darkseid's cameo in SPJO #134 eclipsing Forever People #1. I think I read that print runs might be a factor in that one.

I have no problem with Hulk 181 being more valuable than 180; It has the hot new hero on the cover and throughout the entire book. Expecting #180 to be more valuable is like saying the 1st app/cameo automatically equates to more value, and I don't think that should be the case in all situations. And that's where the Market comes in.

Of course, 181 did have lots of help over the years from publications stating it to BE the 1st app.

I think 180 will get its day. :popcorn:

Gambit's in a similar situation. He appears in X-Men annual 14 in July then X-Men 266 in August but the 266 is the one everyone wants. And it's not even a cameo or a brief last page appearance. Gambit is seen throughout the story, is mentioned by name and even has some speaking lines. But he's not being heralded on the cover :/


That's right, I did forget that one. That also had the advantage of publications and word of mouth stating 266 to be the first.
However this is a slightly different situation, but only because the release dates of the two play a factor in the discussion.

Paging Doc Brown.

For whatever the reason, X-Man Annual #14 was released, purchased by fans, viewed, and read by the public before X-Men 266 was. Was it intended or was it a release flub? Doesn't matter.

X-Men 266 is probably the more interesting of the two comics (IDK, I don't have it & don't want it, but I do have 3 annuals because I collect 1st apps). If X-Men Ann 14 ever eclipses 266, it will probably be due to speculation rather than content.

Hulk 181 and X-Men 266 are "the books to have", but not due to 1st appearances.
Post 20 IP   flag post
Collector MetalPSI private msg quote post Address this user
I haven't read the posts in the thread but...

Achem....


A FREAKING TEST TUBE IS NOT A FIRST APPEARANCE. You have any idea what a PITA it was for me to complete my Cyber collection getting this POS issue? Wolverine #79 was awesome where Cyber kicks his tail, yet again, but to finish the story some pump and dumper decides a test tube is a first appearance? Give me a break.
Post 21 IP   flag post
Collector Despain private msg quote post Address this user
@MetalPSI Haha! True. Nice to see a fellow Cyber fan. What a waste when Marvel decided to kill him off. He's one of my favorite Wolverine villains. They never gave him an action figure did they? I think I've seen some customes though.
Post 22 IP   flag post
Collector MR_SigS private msg quote post Address this user
@MetalPSI
Post 23 IP   flag post
Collector Oxbladder private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by MR_SigS
@ThisLand There's also Darkseid's cameo in SPJO #134 eclipsing Forever People #1. I think I read that print runs might be a factor in that one.

I have no problem with Hulk 181 being more valuable than 180; It has the hot new hero on the cover and throughout the entire book. Expecting #180 to be more valuable is like saying the 1st app/cameo automatically equates to more value, and I don't think that should be the case in all situations. And that's where the Market comes in.

Of course, 181 did have lots of help over the years from publications stating it to BE the 1st app.

I think 180 will get its day. :popcorn:


The market does indeed decide and has decided that Wolverine #80 is pretty much an interesting side note. It is not even close to being a first anything. NYX #3 is firmly and justly planted as thr first appearance.
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Collector Swampy private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThisLand
@MR_SigS You bring up an interesting point. Why do first appearance cameos seem to be be so undervalued when compared to first "full" appearances?

The true first appearance of Wolverine is Hulk #180. Yet #181 is the issue everyone wants (and pays up for


This is because people back then read their comics and valued good stories. #181 is a more exciting read than 180. I can't imagine how popular 181 would be if a good artist had drawn the interiors.
Post 25 IP   flag post
Collector Oxbladder private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swampy
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThisLand
@MR_SigS You bring up an interesting point. Why do first appearance cameos seem to be be so undervalued when compared to first "full" appearances?

The true first appearance of Wolverine is Hulk #180. Yet #181 is the issue everyone wants (and pays up for


This is because people back then read their comics and valued good stories. #181 is a more exciting read than 180. I can't imagine how popular 181 would be if a good artist had drawn the interiors.


I was underwhelmed when I read it years ago I must be an outlier.
Post 26 IP   flag post
Collector Despain private msg quote post Address this user
@Swampy Imagine if Romita Sr. had drawn it.
Post 27 IP   flag post
Collector Oxbladder private msg quote post Address this user
@Despain that would have been pretty sweet!
Post 28 IP   flag post
Collector MR_SigS private msg quote post Address this user
@Despain Now you're talking.
Post 29 IP   flag post
Collector MetalPSI private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Despain
@MetalPSI Haha! True. Nice to see a fellow Cyber fan. What a waste when Marvel decided to kill him off. He's one of my favorite Wolverine villains. They never gave him an action figure did they? I think I've seen some customes though.


No kidding. He was the only villain that Wolverine actually admitted to being afraid of.

Not sure if they ever made a figure of him, but he does make video game and card appearances.
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