CBCS launches New Logo and Brand756
 COLLECTOR
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DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Ok, I'll ask this again, and this is meant for the CBCS staff. Even if you guys are deciding to blow through the rivet paper stock, why haven't you changed the font and layout to the SDCC protype font and layout which looked vastly superior? Any part of the label that's not preprinted should not be delayed on getting upgraded to a better appearance. I can fully understand burning through the stock from a financial aspect, but doubling down on the rest of it makes no sense when you've already displayed a superior font and layout that's ready to go. Also we have been waiting two weeks for an official response on what is going to be done and how long it's going to take to happen. You have natives who are getting restless, and you are loosing money each day that passes. I personally, have over 80 books and growing that I was hoping to get slabbed before the end of the year. As 95% percent of these are to stay in my collection, and will be displayed in my home I really do care how the presentation of the books will look. If you plan to keep the rivets going for the rest of the year fine, just tell us that so we can make informed decisions about what to do with our collections. At least if I know how long it's going to take I can start submitting books I wish to sell while waiting for the labels to run out. I'm really looking forward to getting this train rolling again. |
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| Post 1026 • IP flag post | ||
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MegaMatt private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I don't think I've ever checked into a forum as often as I have to this! I also have about 35 books waiting for grading and I'm really concerned about the current labels. From what I was told, the new labels will go out as soon as they return from an outside company that produces them. I was told that there are few tweaks taking place and it could be as soon as a few weeks to as long (as others have mentioned) as a few months. They cannot hold orders to "wait" for the new labels and they will not replace the current labels with new ones for free. I sent in my books with the intention of getting the original labels, so it definitely sucks that I'm stuck with a product I do not want. If I can urge the powers that be to help with this by providing some news and maybe even options for those who are currently getting graded, it would really really be appreciated. I realize that this isn't considered super important, but to those like me who sent their best books in and have invested a large amount of time and money into it, it's really super stressful. Thanks! Crossing fingers that CBCS continues with their reputation as being a responsive and customer friendly company. | ||
| Post 1027 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
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Johnjakewish private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I reached out to customer service and they stated that there is no timetable or guarantee for a new label. I asked to place my order on hold and was informed that I cannot do that. cbcs did say that I can pay to have my books reholdered "if" a new label comes out. They will, however, let me cancel my order. I would be out around $100 for shipping so I'm not sure how I'm going to proceed. I'm disappointed that they will not allow me to put my order on hold. | ||
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Kinsella5 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Johnjakewish Did you send your comics in to be graded before or after they debuted the new label? I have to assume you sent them in before and if that was the case, I would think that CBCS would reach out to everyone who had books there at their facility before the new labels were announced and offer to them free return shipping of the books back so the customers could then wait until a different label debuts, when/if that happens. I can't see CBCS holding books for everyone, that would take up room and I suspect storage space is at a premium And if something was to happen in the meantime, it holds them responsible. Their job is to receive, grade, and ship them back, holding them for an undetermined amount of time I can't see being possible. I would admit that if I had sent my books in and a new label debuted, and I didn't care for it, I would not be overly thrilled. I do realize companies are free to do as they please and changes do occur without notice, but at the same time when it is something of mine that I may or may not be keeping or displaying, the label design is important and if I submitted books under the belief that it would have a certain "look" to them (i.e. the previous label) only to find that they will have a different look announced after I sent them in, I would feel a bit disappointed to say the least. I am one of the very few people who has never submitted a book for grading. I have sat on the fence for a very long time, being extremely anti-slabbing for a long time and didn't see the point, until CBCS came along and I started to speak to a number of friends who went with them but also with CGC. It is not a question of whom will get my business, CBCS has that locked down in my book, but its now a question of "when" I have enjoyed reading the forums on this site topic as well but also on the CGC board, some very good people on both, but CBCS won me over. I do hope a new label is under consideration, and if they are working on that, perhaps they can narrow it down to three choices and have the customers vote on what looks the best however I realize you can't please everyone. In the meantime, the bulk of my collection will remain raw, I have waited this long, I can wait a bit longer. |
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| Post 1029 • IP flag post | ||
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mattness private msg quote post Address this user | |
I'll happily take the new label if it means I will be moved to the front of line  |
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| Post 1030 • IP flag post | ||
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Mio private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Johnjakewish I cancelled my order Monday and asked that they return my books. |
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| Post 1031 • IP flag post | ||
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svgcomics181 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Mio as did i and i did get this response  |
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| Post 1032 • IP flag post | ||
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KenWorthing private msg quote post Address this user | |
| That's bittersweet, at least there's some resolution in that you'll get your books back. There's one thing that hasn't really been touched on. Everyone's been concentrating on the rivets, thin paper and grade font, .. and that's the elephant-in-the-room that is the foil-stamp. I really hope CBCS go for a true hologram .. just like CGC .. not just some cheap foil thing. |
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| Post 1033 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
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mazingman private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I'm really hoping they announce something soon. I cant see sending anything more in when I have no idea what I may be getting. Id like to cancel my order but have been waiting so long so I guess ill wait it out. I just don't feel they are doing much to ensure repeat business. | ||
| Post 1034 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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svgcomics181 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @mazingman can always sell thr books with new label and buy them with the original label | ||
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 Leftover Sundae Gnus
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CatmanAmerica private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by mazingman Apologies in advance, ...this will probably be another lengthy post (place appropriate Facepalm emoticon here). Before I get into this rehashed critique, I'd like to make the point that from my perspective CBCS has always taken the high ground when it comes to fair competition, maintaining an excellent product and service while reaching out to dissatisfied CGC customers without resorting to hardball business practice. I realize that patience is difficult and the grief caused by the label rebranding seems self-inflicted, but unlike CGC's Titanic construction flaws, CBCS's issues are limited to the masthead. We should take comfort in the fact that CBCS has acknowledged the dissatisfaction and are attempting to address it. The problem with coming up with a simple remedy is that remedies are rarely simple. I'm sure that CBCS management was caught by surprise at the negative reaction to the rebranding. In fact, from their viewpoint the timing and approach (surprise launch at SDCC) must've looked strategically perfect given CGC's own holder debacle. The only thing left out of the CBCS label/branding changeover was collector input. Maybe there was some outreach (to dealers?), but if so, it was kept sufficiently private to take almost everyone here by surprise. The label change shouldn't have been such a big deal, and it probably wouldn't be except it leaves those who dislike the changeover nowhere else to go for dependable third party grading in a presentable holder. If CBCS had just reached out to try different designs and poll the results, this entire matter might've been averted. FTR, dealers opinions are always going to be mixed and based on their best interest, sales. I say that as a person who straddles the fence between dealer and collector. If the label is seen purely as marketing, then it's value will be limited to high visibility of grades, security and quick information retrieval. For collectors, the holder and label may represent a myriad of other important functions from trusted third party grading to visual appealing display, long term storage and protection of encapsulated books and perhaps, eventual resale. For my part, as I've mentioned here before, I'll make a point of discussing the label and branding with Steve at Chicago, not that my opinion carries any special weight, nor should it. Looking back on the old label I can understand the desire to move away from the pale powder blue color scheme while injecting the trademark shield with a more competitive foil holographic design, but the grade font and lettering was just fine as is. Thus far the new designs have been overly ambitious, but not visually appealing (collector friendly). Dealers and auction houses like big bold grades, but most collectors ...at least those who keep books in holders... don't. While I don't care for the new shield design, it doesn't repel me as much as it does some. The solid color bar (with or without rivets) doesn't appeal to me at all. I'm also prone to thinking outside the grade box. My understanding is that CBCS has chosen to go with a professional design firm for a redesign. This time, they appear to be taking enough time to get the job done right. Hopefully the design(s) submitted for CBCS approval will take collectors opinions to heart, keeping in mind that this is a hobby based on nostalgia and that the books above all should remain the primary focus whether in holders or raw.  Cheers |
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| Post 1036 • IP flag post | ||
 Rock, Paper, Scissors, Lizard, Spock
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Tedsaid private msg quote post Address this user | |
| CatmanAmerica - I agree with literally everything you just said. Well put. | ||
| Post 1037 • IP flag post | ||
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Rock, Paper, Scissors, Lizard, Spock
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Tedsaid private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Kinsella5 Kinsella5, I don't think that is technically true in this case. A contract exists if there are four things: offer, acceptance, and consideration; and a "meeting of the minds." The first three are pretty self-explanatory, with "consideration" just the payment for what is being offered. "Meeting of the minds" just means, both parties must understand (or be in a position to understand) the terms of the deal. I'll come back to that point in a minute, but basically CBCS's product / service has three interlocking parts. The professional grading is the first part. The encapsulation is the second, and is necessary to ensure the grade is more or less fixed and verifiable. The third part is the aesthetics, so a graded and protected comic can be displayed and therefore still appreciated. When CBCS changed the label, they changed the aesthetics - that is, they changed a material aspect of the product under contract. Thus the law would require, for anyone who doesn't accept the changed contract, that CBCS not only agree to nullify the deal, but also to ensure the other party is "no worse off" than before the contract was made. I.e., they would have to ship books back and refund all the money (including the membership fee, if part of the original contract). This is true even if the grading and slabbing was already done with the new label, and CBCS can't somehow convince the customer to accept the new slab as fulfilling the contract. Now CBCS could argue that the label change is NOT a "material change" in the contract. That may be tenable, and I certainly believe that they believe this. But here is where "a meeting of the minds" comes in. Some customers clearly believe the new label is a material change, and thus "a meeting of the minds" on this contract doesn't exist. That last bit is where a court could rule, at least partially, in CBCS's favor. I don't think that would happen, but it's a possibility. What also comes into play here, however, is that the contract is between a business and an individual. This is generally viewed in law as a disproportionate relationship. Therefore, companies usually have additional responsibilities under contracts with individuals. In other words, the burden to ensure the other party is "no worse off" will probably lie with CBCS. Particularly since they made the change in the first place and, as far as I can tell, the terms of service don't cover this eventuality. *Note: I'm not a lawyer. If there are any lawyers out there who don't agree with my interpretation and would like to chime in, I would be happy to know if any of that is wrong. |
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| Post 1038 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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Kinsella5 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Tedsaid I see your point and agree with what you said in your response. What CBCS should have done is informed everyone who had books in the grading process that a new label was being released and then showed them the design and allowed the customer to choose either the old label or the new one. This also would apply to any books that were shipped to them as of a certain date, but then as of x date any books submitted would get the new label. If a number of people then disliked the new label, then it would caused CBCS to quickly rethink the label design. In the end I didn't feel they needed to make a big surprise with a countdown to 7-15-16, I do hope this all gets worked out and soon and when the new revised label is completed they can ask for opinions on it and perhaps another few designs. |
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| Post 1039 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
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Oxbladder private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Tedsaid you are contracting CBCS to grade/verify the book that is the product. That didn't change. | ||
| Post 1040 • IP flag post | ||
 You think I'm joking, I'm not.
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earthshaker01 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Can I just get my books graded | ||
| Post 1041 • IP flag post | ||
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Rock, Paper, Scissors, Lizard, Spock
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Tedsaid private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Oxbladder That's true, Oxbladder. I think the key is, the three parts of the produce are inter-related. Having a book graded is more valuable if everyone can see the grade for themselves. But it wouldn't work if the grade could change right after: i.e., if the comic weren't protected from change. And having a book graded and protected isn't very valuable if you can't see and display the comic. And so all three things - grade, protection, aesthetics - are sold together as one service. There may be some people who are satisfied with only the grade/verification service, and for them the contract is fulfilled. Just like there may be some who are satisfied with the new label. But others will object to the changed terms, and will consider the new terms a material change. And I think the legal requirements of contract law will support their position. |
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Collector
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KenWorthing private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Tedsaid I'm .. not .. so .. sure. The original material has not been changed at all and how the company presents the final product to the customer is totally down to them. I don't think they're answerable to anyone for how they design their product. They have honoured their part of the contract by doing what they have been asked to do: Grade the book. I think it really ends there, but what do I know |
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| Post 1043 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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KenWorthing private msg quote post Address this user | |
| .. just looking through CBCS Terms, and Point.12, I think serves for this .. EXCEPT FOR ANY EXPRESS WARRANTIES SET FORTH IN THESE TERMS AND CONDITIONS, CBCS DISCLAIMS ANY AND ALL WARRANTIES, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, REGARDING CBCS AND/OR THE SERVICES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. THE MAXIMUM AGGREGATE LIABILITY THAT CBCS SHALL HAVE TO THE CUSTOMER, OR ANY THIRD PARTY FOR WHOM THE CUSTOMER MAY BE ACTING, ARISING FROM ANY CAUSE, ACT, OMISSION OR OTHER CIRCUMSTANCE, SHALL IN NO EVENT EXCEED THE SERVICES FEE OR FEES PAID BY THE CUSTOMER FOR THE SERVICES ORDERED PURSUANT TO THIS SUMISSION FORM. IN NO EVENT SHALL CBCS OR ANY OF ITS AFFILIATES, OR ANY OF ITS OR THEIR RESPECTIVE EMPLOYEES, OFFICERS, DIRECTORS OR AGENTS, BE LIABLE TO CUSTOMER OR ANY OTHER PARTY FOR ANY INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, AND IN NO EVENT SHALL THE AGGREGATE LIABILITY OF CBCS, ITS AFFILIATES, AND ANY OF ITS OR THEIR RESPECTIVE EMPLOYEES, OFFICERS, DIRECTORS OR AGENTS, EXCEED THE FEES PAID OR PAYABLE TO CBCS FOR THE SERVICES. CBCS Terms |
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| Post 1044 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
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Maverick private msg quote post Address this user | |
| ITT: A bunch of people that have no clue what they are talking about in regards to the legality of this situation. In my opinion this forum and this thread in particular should not be the place to discuss building a legal case. I wouldn't be surprised if that kind of talk gets the thread pulled. Which in itself might not be a bad thing. This issue really only affected the very few that got books graded with the new labels between July 11th and July 15 before the announcement. I urge those few ppl to work with CBCS privately as they will be able to help in some form. All others can either get a refund or just wait until the new label comes out. |
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| Post 1045 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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KenWorthing private msg quote post Address this user | |
| fuggit. | ||
| Post 1046 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
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D84 private msg quote post Address this user | |
I can't believe people are talking about a legal case over a surprise label change. The sense of entitlement is becoming comedic. |
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| Post 1047 • IP flag post | ||
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You think I'm joking, I'm not.
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earthshaker01 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Get the local town folk and some pitchforks and storm the castle | ||
| Post 1048 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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rckstr1253 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I'm not a huge fan of the new label but honestly in person, it doesn't look half as bad as it did when I saw pics of it. I still prefer the old label, even though I found that one kind of boring, so a "new" new label may make everyone happy. Either way, I'll take cbcs over cgc any day of the week. I love their holder and they at least responded to criticism the right way, unlike cgc did. | ||
| Post 1049 • IP flag post | ||
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You think I'm joking, I'm not.
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earthshaker01 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Uh...can I just get my books graded. I'll take whatever label I can. | ||
| Post 1050 • IP flag post | ||
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Rock, Paper, Scissors, Lizard, Spock
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Tedsaid private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by KenWorthing Hi, Ken. In this context, "material" just means "meaningful; something that matters." It's not talking about what the slab is actually made of. Thanks. |
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| Post 1051 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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KenWorthing private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Tedsaid Fair enough. .. but I don't think anyone has a leg to stand on, if coming at it from a legal point of view. I think we should all count ourselves lucky that CBCS are even willing to re-think the label. .. and that .. is where I shall leave it |
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| Post 1052 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
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MR_SigS private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by D84 This, all day, every day. What a joke. I bet if CBCS announced free slabbing to everyone 'holding back' due to these Satan-spawned labels, opinions would suddenly change. If they are going to bother with the label again, hopefully they do put out a poll. I'd hate to see all the butthurt threads crying, "But they didn't ask MMMMEEEEEEEE!" |
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| Post 1053 • IP flag post | ||
 COLLECTOR
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Foghorn_Sam private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I've been a pretty harsh critic about all of this, but I think taking a legal angle is taking it a bit too far. However, I think the question is was this a good business decision to not take in consideration about how your customers would react to such a change, especially to those customers that already had orders in? For whatever reason, it is obvious there was a total assumption by CBCS this new label would be well received overall. Instead, at least for some of us, this roll out and how it was handled has been perceived as an inconsiderate detachment toward their customers, not well planned or thought out, exacerbated by the recent debacle over at the competition. | ||
| Post 1054 • IP flag post | ||
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You think I'm joking, I'm not.
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earthshaker01 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Do we need to post this again  |
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| Post 1055 • IP flag post | ||
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