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New with CBCS - Issues with CGC6048

Collector DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingNampa
@DrWatson those are old labels/cases

They're mine. I've had them for years. I can look up the grade dates if you want.
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Collector DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user
The ASXM #7 was graded on 05/23/2005. The 4 on 01/16/2006. The 2 on 06/30/2006.
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Collector GanaSoth private msg quote post Address this user
OK gentlemen, please continue the chat, I will catch up tomorrow. I gotta get some rest.
Have a good night all.
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CBCS Pressing SteveRicketts private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by GanaSoth
From all the pictures I have seen on-line about CBCS comic slabs and all I have researched thus far; they always have the inner wells/trays and you never have to re-slab your comics ever again, unlike CGC's every 7 to 10 years.


CBCS uses inner wells on 99.999% of books, including modern comics. It's pretty rare to do lid to lid, but it does happen, but only if deemed that is best for the comic in that situation.

You do not have to reslab CBCS comics every 7 to 10 years. As long as you store them in a standard controlled climate, you would never have to reslab them.
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Collector Marximus private msg quote post Address this user
CGC recommended to reslab books, years ago, just to replace the Microchamber paper.

They no longer recommend it, and say this on their website.

OP, their FAQ mentions an inner well.
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COLLECTOR dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrWatson
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingNampa
@DrWatson those are old labels/cases

They're mine. I've had them for years. I can look up the grade dates if you want.

The ASXM #7 was graded on 05/23/2005. The 4 on 01/16/2006. The 2 on 06/30/2006.

Yes, all of them were graded well before June 2016, when CGC introduced the new slab, hence all your books being in the old slabs/labels as @KingNampa says
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Collector DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by dielinfinite
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrWatson
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingNampa
@DrWatson those are old labels/cases

They're mine. I've had them for years. I can look up the grade dates if you want.

The ASXM #7 was graded on 05/23/2005. The 4 on 01/16/2006. The 2 on 06/30/2006.

Yes, all of them were graded well before June 2016, when CGC introduced the new slab, hence all your books being in the old slabs/labels as @KingNampa says

I know they are old slabs.

The point is that they are slabbed the same way as the OP's more recent books. Meaning that the cgc slabbing books lid to lid (without a tray) isn't something that is new.
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Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
This will end in tears.
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Collector Drogio private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marximus
CGC recommended to reslab books, years ago, just to replace the Microchamber paper.

They no longer recommend it, and say this on their website.

OP, their FAQ mentions an inner well.


I believe they still add the micro chamber for older newsprint comics, but their recommendation not to reslab was based on observations from opening comics that had been slabbed for 10 years and not seeing anything that would warrant a microchamber change. Maybe that'll change after the e been around for 20 years.
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Collector IronMan private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrWatson
All the books are in an inner well, but the inner wells are just the front and back of the sleeves of the inner well. The book isn't sitting inside a "tray" like in other cases. The sleeves "hold" the book in place as opposed to it sitting in a tray.

The tray can contribute to SCS while the sandwich sleeves can cause the cover to stay in place and the rest of the book slide.


Thank you Dr Watson... I was beginning to think I was the only person that could see there were in fact inner wells on the books in question.

I would guess the problem starts with the fact that modern comics continue to shrink in size. The outer slab has to accommodate much larger golden age books. But publishers have progressively cut the dimension down on comics until now current books books leave lots of unfilled space in the slab. Lots of unfilled space can mean space to slide around.

I used to believe the grading companies made the inner wells on site when encapsulating. But we learned from CBCS's slab issues (with the inner well) back in 2014 that they inner wells are ordered in a variety of different sizes from a supplier. So in encapsulation they must be looking for whatever is the best size inner well to fit each book

Any damage to a comic from encapsulation is rare. But the tray design for the inner well is IMHO the one most likely to cause damage. It can fold down overhang, there is more likelihood of damage from shaken comic syndrome. The sleeve design (also called tapered seal) with the inner holder sealed along the edge just a few millimeters away from the book - if done right causes the least problems. If the seal is close to the comic there is very little room to move around. There is no hard edge to fold overhang or cause corner impact. But even with a seal close to the edge the book can get a tiny bit crooked. If the seal isn't as close as it should be books can get noticeably crooked. And of course you have the cover being pressed up against the inner well - but obviously the interior is not.

Like the good doctor, only the Hulk 22 looks to have shifted. The others I'm not seeing anything to be concerned about.
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Collector Nino_013 private msg quote post Address this user
Heres what i know:
- cgc changed to slabbing the comic with 2 sheets of mylar when they released the new cases.
- they then switched back to the trays after the backlash of the 2 sheets supposedly damaging books.
- you occasionally now still get the 2 mylar sheets, but they heat seal the edges to prevent the comic from shifting.
- theyve used the mylar w/heat sealed edges even on the old slabs. I think it was dependent on the thickness of the book
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Collector Wraith private msg quote post Address this user
Slabbing issues aside.. A lot of those 9.8 appear to have banged up corners / spine
Post 37 IP   flag post
Collector rickdod3 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wraith
Slabbing issues aside.. A lot of those 9.8 appear to have banged up corners / spine


That's a CGC 9.8 for you lol
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CBCS TimBildhauser private msg quote post Address this user
I think the most important thing to remember is that none of us, whether is be a grading company or an individual, are without flaws. It's how you handle things when a mistake is made that's important.
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Collector GanaSoth private msg quote post Address this user
Big thanks to you all that contributed to this thread. I appreciate it greatly for all the extra information.
Post 40 IP   flag post
Collector IronMan private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nino_013
Heres what i know:
- cgc changed to slabbing the comic with 2 sheets of mylar when they released the new cases.
- they then switched back to the trays after the backlash of the 2 sheets supposedly damaging books.
- you occasionally now still get the 2 mylar sheets, but they heat seal the edges to prevent the comic from shifting.
- theyve used the mylar w/heat sealed edges even on the old slabs. I think it was dependent on the thickness of the book


I doubt CGC has every used Mylar heat sealed. Because Mylar is notoriously difficult to heat seal. That's why the grading companies looked for other - close to as archival and inert - alternatives.
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Collector CopperAgeKids private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingNampa
I noticed a change recently in cgc cases as well. Back in 2016 they tried to remove the inner wells but after many complaints it was put back. Now it seems in 2018 they are trying to take it out again. Many of my recent cgc comics are crooked inside the case and shift around as well.


CGC has not foregone using an inner well with any of their slabs, since the 4/4/2016 "new case" was rolled out, which dropped the inner well and caused "mechanical defects" ...and a lot of complaints.

CGC re-introduced the classic inner well design, shortly after they received numerous complaints.

Dunno exactly when that was but IIRC, it was about /4/7/2016.

A Google search would show the actual date.

But point being, all of CGC'sbooks have incorporated an inner well since around 7/2016.

If you can post up pics showing other wise, I'd be very surprised.

Edit:

A Google searched didn't yield much, but I do remember that CGC issued a statement on their forum about 2 years ago, stating that they were re-introduced an inner well, on all of their slabs.

FWIW, I had a few moderns reholdered by CGC at no charge, that were slabbed in the 4/4/2016 era holder because of slight wariness (which is actually the norm on unpressed moderns, virtually all books off comic racks on Wednesdays are "wavy".

The reholdered slabs were not uncommonly wavy, after I had them reholdered by CGC.

It was originally an issue with centering, I believe. No inner well, leaves a book that is not centered evenly, prone to excessive Newton rings and the like.
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Collector CopperAgeKids private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocBrown
This will end in tears.


Haha...yup.

I gave this comment of yours , the maximum amount of likes that arw allowed.
Post 43 IP   flag post
Collector KingNampa private msg quote post Address this user
@CopperAgeKids Look at OP's pictures. They are recently graded without "inner wells"
Post 44 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user
Does this look like it has the inner well? I just got these last week...




Post 45 IP   flag post
Collector dpiercy private msg quote post Address this user
Uh...yeah...this slab has an inner well.


Post 46 IP   flag post
Collector dpiercy private msg quote post Address this user
This seam indicates an inner well; they have more than one well design.


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Collector Logan510 private msg quote post Address this user
I love this place.
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COLLECTOR kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user
I thought so. It looked like there was an inner well.
Post 49 IP   flag post
Collector Millard private msg quote post Address this user
Hi! Brand new here and I'm just looking around but I spotted your thread. Thought I would clear something up. Cgc uses an inner well on every book. It's either a tray (as you call it) or a lid-to-lid depending on the comic. They used to use mylar only for a short time when the new holder came out in 2016, but they discontinued that quickly and went back to the same design inner well that they had been using since 2000. They haven't used mylar at all since.
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Collector OGJackster private msg quote post Address this user
I believe that some of the blame can be placed on the handling of the boxes during transportation back to our residences. There's no such thing as "handle with care" or "FRAGILE". I was sitting in front of my house when my last 20lb box was getting delivered by USPS. I watched the guy walk into the back of his truck, bring it back up to the front and then straight up drop it on the floor with a loud "thud" while he scanned his paperwork! I was not at all pleased with that POS but what can you do? When they travel across the United States, they are going to get thrown, tossed and dropped. Nothing was cracked or broken but, when the books are violently jarred around in such a manner, they are going to move around inside the wells. The only away from them not getting damaged is if you personally drop them off and pick them up. Maybe at some point, there will be a method to safely vacuum seal the books and shrinkwrap them to prevent any movement while being cushioned within the case. Sounds like a business opportunity to me.
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Collector GanaSoth private msg quote post Address this user
@dpiercy The picture you circled here shows the inner well with the tray that holds the comic in place. This what all the CGC books should have inside the slabs but don't.
In the pictures I provided for example; just shows poor execution on CGCs slabbing methods...



This is my CGC comic with no inner well tray... You can call it an inner well, but to me its two pieces of garbage holding the cover in place so the inner pages can free fall where ever they want. CGC knew better, but just dont give two $hits.

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