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What the cbcs????5476

Collector Zombie_Head private msg quote post Address this user
Changes to Authentic Signature Program

CBCS is announcing some changes to our Authentic Signature Program. CBCS is dedicated to keeping the integrity of the ASP at the highest level, and over the last 12 months, it has become evident that change was needed. We did not make these changes sitting in a boardroom, we actively solicited and received feedback from both our customers, creators and Authorized Witnesses. The overwhelming area people thought we could improve upon is the security of the program. Most people think the ASP has grown so big that tighter restrictions and more safeguards needed to be in place. We agreed.
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After very careful consideration, CBCS has decided to put the following changes into place.
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CBCS is going to create two categories of Authorized Witnesses, Personal Use, and Facilitators. Personal Use AWs can witness signatures but are NOT allowed to take other people’s books and witness them being signed. Facilitators are those AWs who can take other people’s books to a signing event and witness signatures for them, they are allowed to solicit for these books.
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Facilitators have to meet a minimum annual submission volume in order to qualify as an Authorized Witness. Anyone can request to be an Authorized Witness / Facilitator, the program director will review each request and make a determination based on past submission history.
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**Facilitators / Authorized Witnesses must apply for Facilitator/AW status annually**
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· Facilitators have 60 days to add signatures to books from one signing event/show to another signing event/show, previous restrictions and documentation still apply.
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· Facilitators must submit all books within 10 business days of the last signing event, submissions after 10 days risk not qualifying for an ASP (yellow label) designation.
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· Facilitators submitting books with incomplete submission paperwork or turning in books inside of window-cut bags, will have a $1/book surcharge added to that submission. Effective March 1st, 2018.

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**Personal Use / Authorized Witnesses must apply for AW status a least two weeks prior to the signing event. CBCS will be conducting background checks on applicants, which must be completed prior to approval**
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· Personal Use AWs are not allowed to witness other people’s books and have to submit at least 10 books per event.
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· Personal Use AWs are not allowed to have their books travel to other events to add signatures, unless the additional signatures are handled by a Facilitator, with proper documentation (multi-event forms).
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· All books have to be submitted at the end of the signing event, or given to a facilitator to add signatures. Mail in submissions have to be postmarked within 2 weeks of the signing and/or sketch event. International AWs have 1 month to submit their signed books to a facilitator or CBCS (due to customs sometimes holding packages for several days or weeks).
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* Additional changes that effect both Personal Use AWs and Facilitators include:

- Any ASP book submitted with 10 or more signatures will be charged an additional $5 processing fee. ASP books with 20 or more signatures will have an additional $5 fee added on again. The reason for this increase in processing fees is the length of time required to check each signature and date associated with the books.
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-Book(s) submitted to artist or writers, by mail, is taken into consideration, and will be given 10 business days from the date the artist/writer signs off on the Signature/Sketch Ops form, which could also be mailed directly to CBCS, with the submission forms completely filled out.

What do you all think of this? I love CBCS but I might have to start using someone else. I’m sad that Beckett going to ruin CBCS.
Post 1 IP   flag post
Collector KatKomics private msg quote post Address this user
I'm over to CGC now - I rarely have more than 10 books so AW is out and CBCS doesn't attend my shows and there likely won't be any local facilitators - back to CGC
Post 2 IP   flag post
Collector Themaxx35 private msg quote post Address this user
Still undecided on the specifics, but tbh I’m all for tightening up the signature program in some way. Few months ago there was a lot of dust up about people being granted aw status on the day they showed up at a con. Don’t recall how that all worked out, but bottom line is it demonstrated some possible holes or at least perceived holes in the program. If the yellow labels can’t be trusted by the market then a lot of value will be lost for those slabs.

With that said, not sure how well this addresses those concerns. I’ll have a wait and see attitude about it for now.
Post 3 IP   flag post
Collector X51 private msg quote post Address this user
I don't think anyone should be witnessing their own books being signed for submissions. Maybe I misread something.
Post 4 IP   flag post
Collector Zombie_Head private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by X51
I don't think anyone should be witnessing their own books being signed for submissions. Maybe I misread something.


10 book limit??? Not every one can afford that. Me and a friend were all excited because CBCS were going to be their but now I’m not so excited.
Post 5 IP   flag post
Collector Zombie_Head private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Themaxx35
Still undecided on the specifics, but tbh I’m all for tightening up the signature program in some way. Few months ago there was a lot of dust up about people being granted aw status on the day they showed up at a con. Don’t recall how that all worked out, but bottom line is it demonstrated some possible holes or at least perceived holes in the program. If the yellow labels can’t be trusted by the market then a lot of value will be lost for those slabs.

With that said, not sure how well this addresses those concerns. I’ll have a wait and see attitude about it for now.


I agree about righting up the program but 10 book limit really???
Post 6 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR conditionfreak private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by X51
I don't think anyone should be witnessing their own books being signed for submissions. Maybe I misread something.


I agree with this. It's like grading and slabbing your own books and putting a CBCS label in the slab.

People can not be trusted to witness their own signatures and stuff. That is why we have facilitators and notary publics.
Post 7 IP   flag post
Collector NoahSult private msg quote post Address this user
I feel like cbcs is going to be rebranded into just Beckett grading. They are great at what they actually do but the tat’s are god awful, this signature program just got setup for huge amounts of forgeries and cgc’s sell prices are quite a bit higher than cbcs. Such great promise from this company and now it all seems to be falling away.
Post 8 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR drchaos private msg quote post Address this user
While I do like the idea of background checks and tighter qualifications on who can qualify as an authorized witness I believe the tighter deadlines will make it much more difficult to obtain multiple signatures from big artists on the same book.

For example I had Hulk 182 signed by Len Wein at San Diego Comic Con through a facilitator in July. While Roy Thomas was at Terrificon the following month I did not get Lou Ferrigno's signature until the Rhode Island Comic Con in November. Under the new rules it would have been impossible to get all three signatures without exceeding the deadline (even as a facilitator).
Post 9 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR drchaos private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahSult
I feel like cbcs is going to be rebranded into just Beckett grading. They are great at what they actually do but the tat’s are god awful, this signature program just got setup for huge amounts of forgeries and cgc’s sell prices are quite a bit higher than cbcs. Such great promise from this company and now it all seems to be falling away.


That is a bold accusation.

Can you provide any examples of a forged signature graded under the AW program or is your tin foil hat on a little too tight,?
Post 10 IP   flag post
Collector KatKomics private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by conditionfreak
Quote:
Originally Posted by X51
I don't think anyone should be witnessing their own books being signed for submissions. Maybe I misread something.


I agree with this. It's like grading and slabbing your own books and putting a CBCS label in the slab.

People can not be trusted to witness their own signatures and stuff. That is why we have facilitators and notary publics.


Delicate balance because of scum bags....me I have books signed for my own collection - will be sold upon death most likely.
Some I have gone for verified Red labels (usually books I had signed before there were witnessing companies or before they were going to conventions etc.) I am very speradic in what I get graded, only have 40-50 books total including ones I bought. This for me..means I will likely only use CBCS for verified Red labels - can't think of any I have signed that I want graded right now.

CGC and CBCS don't setup tables (or very rarely) at conventions I'm at. If they are there I use them (saves on freight$$).

I only know of one shop close to me (1.5hrs away) that is a CGC submitter - I have never done CBCS AW but would have been nice to have the option. I have maybe 4 books I would like SS'd this year (big year for me) these will now go to CGC.
Post 11 IP   flag post
Collector Themaxx35 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie_Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by Themaxx35
Still undecided on the specifics, but tbh I’m all for tightening up the signature program in some way. Few months ago there was a lot of dust up about people being granted aw status on the day they showed up at a con. Don’t recall how that all worked out, but bottom line is it demonstrated some possible holes or at least perceived holes in the program. If the yellow labels can’t be trusted by the market then a lot of value will be lost for those slabs.

With that said, not sure how well this addresses those concerns. I’ll have a wait and see attitude about it for now.


I agree about righting up the program but 10 book limit really???


Agreed. I’ve never submitted more than 8 at one time. Even that is expensive
Post 12 IP   flag post
Moderator Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie_Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by X51
I don't think anyone should be witnessing their own books being signed for submissions. Maybe I misread something.


10 book limit??? Not every one can afford that. Me and a friend were all excited because CBCS were going to be their but now I’m not so excited.


If CBCS is going to be there, just grab a witness from the booth. You only need to submit 10 comics if you are an AW. There will be AW's at the CBCS booth. They will witness however many comics you have.
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COLLECTOR kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user

Post 14 IP   flag post
Collector KatKomics private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse_O
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie_Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by X51
I don't think anyone should be witnessing their own books being signed for submissions. Maybe I misread something.


10 book limit??? Not every one can afford that. Me and a friend were all excited because CBCS were going to be their but now I’m not so excited.


If CBCS is going to be there, just grab a witness from the booth. You only need to submit 10 comics if you are an AW. There will be AW's at the CBCS booth. They will witness however many comics you have.


Will CBCS be attending more shows?? Admittedly I don't do many conventions in a year (2 or 3) and CBCS has only ever been at 1 of them once when I was attending - Niagara Falls, Hamilton and Toronto Canada
Post 15 IP   flag post
Collector LotsaSequel private msg quote post Address this user
It's easy to say 'Go to the CBCS booth and grab someone from there.'. But for the people that go to smaller cons where CBCS isn't at and potentially no facilitators available this is a problem. On top of that this now allows facilitators to monopolize the market which will more than likely mean facilitator pricing will go up as well. If I'm going to be gouged by facilitators I might as well use CGC. At least then the TAT is a quarter of what CBCS's is. The big benefit to the AW program was that small fish like myself could get those handful of books signed and submitted without being subjected to extra fees from facilitators which can sometimes be the make it or break it point in budgeting for slabbing books. Very disappointing to see CBCS catering to the big fish and in essence punishing the little guys. I don't see this going well business wise for CBCS between TATs and this new change. I get why they're tightening the reigns but the 10 book limit is ridiculous.
Post 16 IP   flag post
Collector NoahSult private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by drchaos
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahSult
I feel like cbcs is going to be rebranded into just Beckett grading. They are great at what they actually do but the tat’s are god awful, this signature program just got setup for huge amounts of forgeries and cgc’s sell prices are quite a bit higher than cbcs. Such great promise from this company and now it all seems to be falling away.


That is a bold accusation.

Can you provide any examples of a forged signature graded under the AW program or is your tin foil hat on a little too tight,?

People witnessing their own signatures is a sure fire way to start receiving forgeries.If you want to dispute something I have said that’s fine but don’t come at me insinuating I’m am a literal crazy person. I don’t know you and wouldn’t dare come at you with insults.
Post 17 IP   flag post
Moderator Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by KatKomics
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse_O
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie_Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by X51
I don't think anyone should be witnessing their own books being signed for submissions. Maybe I misread something.


10 book limit??? Not every one can afford that. Me and a friend were all excited because CBCS were going to be their but now I’m not so excited.


If CBCS is going to be there, just grab a witness from the booth. You only need to submit 10 comics if you are an AW. There will be AW's at the CBCS booth. They will witness however many comics you have.


Will CBCS be attending more shows?? Admittedly I don't do many conventions in a year (2 or 3) and CBCS has only ever been at 1 of them once when I was attending - Niagara Falls, Hamilton and Toronto Canada


No idea.

However, CBCS has already stated that con booths are going to be manned mostly by facilitators and AW's and a few select CBCS personnel. No more graders going to cons. That previous decision plus this revamping of the AW program .... well, the possibility is there. I have no "insider" info, just a guess based on knowing CBCS and watching ALL the pieces.
Post 18 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR drchaos private msg quote post Address this user
@NoahSult You are the one who is insulting me and any other authorized witness by accusing us of forgery, fraud, and self-dealing.

I have seen a couple odd ball posts that have given me concerns but Mark Roman has a good handle on the authorized witness program and does not just let anyone who shows up witness their own books. As I said earlier in this thread, higher standards to qualify as an authorized witness or a facilitator are a good thing.
Post 19 IP   flag post
Collector KatKomics private msg quote post Address this user
Hey - higher standards are ok by me -heck as a CPA I can sign peoples passport photos - I know a thing or two about verification and it's problems (why I work in industry rather than hang my shingle out for lawsuits etc!)
Just disappointing that smaller cons (basically all that I attend) are now pretty much off the table as far as getting witnessed signatures through CBCS - I really do prefer their product but for SS books I'm forced back to CGC - which is also ok.
Post 20 IP   flag post
Collector NoahSult private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by drchaos
@NoahSult You are the one who is insulting me and any other authorized witness by accusing us of forgery, fraud, and self-dealing.

I have seen a couple odd ball posts that have given me concerns but Mark Roman has a good handle on the authorized witness program and does not just let anyone who shows up witness their own books. As I said earlier in this thread, higher standards to qualify as an authorized witness or a facilitator are a good thing.


Hmmm did I call
You out, no! I’m glad you feel strongly it means you aren’t part of the problem, doesn’t change the fact that out of all people who can witness their own signatures some can and eventually will forge. It’s the law of averages and because of that I don’t feel anyone should be able to be a witness for their own stuff.
Post 21 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user
So what do you do when CBCS isn't even allowed in the building like at ECCC in Seattle? what then, say you?
Post 22 IP   flag post
CBCS Pressing SteveRicketts private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaptainmyke
So what do you do when CBCS isn't even allowed in the building like at ECCC in Seattle? what then, say you?


We don't have a booth, but we're there. You can get a CBCS witness at the show without a problem.
Post 23 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user
Could you elaborate please. Do we go to the hotel room first and get a witness to follow us around all day at the con for submissions or we drop off a stack of books or how does this work? Also, follow up question, why doesn't CBCS have a booth at ECCC anymore? Does this have something to do with CGC? Beckett?
Post 24 IP   flag post
Collector Zombie_Head private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveRicketts
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaptainmyke
So what do you do when CBCS isn't even allowed in the building like at ECCC in Seattle? what then, say you?


We don't have a booth, but we're there. You can get a CBCS witness at the show without a problem.


I’ve been to small cons like one days and no CBCS witnesses there. I hope there will be more coverage since there’s a book limit now.
Post 25 IP   flag post
Collector Zombie_Head private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaptainmyke
Could you elaborate please. Do we go to the hotel room first and get a witness to follow us around all day at the con for submissions or we drop off a stack of books or how does this work? Also, follow up question, why doesn't CBCS have a booth at ECCC anymore? Does this have something to do with CGC? Beckett?


Lmfao that won’t happen.
Post 26 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR drchaos private msg quote post Address this user
@NoahSult As my grandmother would say, you are entitled to your erroneous opinion.
Post 27 IP   flag post
Collector kclaw97 private msg quote post Address this user
I'm all for tightening up of the program.
So...will the CBCS booth have enough witnesses at said shows that we won't need to hang around there and wait for an AW then go queue up to have our books signed by the creators/artists? Seems like it might be a logistical nightmare.
Especially if you're not going from one artist to the next. If i get an AW then go get a sig, then wander a bit, then go back to the CBCS booth for an AW then get a sig--wash rinse repeat.
Post 28 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR drchaos private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by kclaw97
I'm all for tightening up of the program.
So...will the CBCS booth have enough witnesses at said shows that we won't need to hang around there and wait for an AW then go queue up to have our books signed by the creators/artists? Seems like it might be a logistical nightmare.
Especially if you're not going from one artist to the next. If i get an AW then go get a sig, then wander a bit, then go back to the CBCS booth for an AW then get a sig--wash rinse repeat.


If you ever worked with the other guys it would work exactly the same way except the CBCS AW would be wearing a different color shirt.
Post 29 IP   flag post
Collector NoahSult private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by drchaos
Quote:
Originally Posted by kclaw97
I'm all for tightening up of the program.
So...will the CBCS booth have enough witnesses at said shows that we won't need to hang around there and wait for an AW then go queue up to have our books signed by the creators/artists? Seems like it might be a logistical nightmare.
Especially if you're not going from one artist to the next. If i get an AW then go get a sig, then wander a bit, then go back to the CBCS booth for an AW then get a sig--wash rinse repeat.


If you ever worked with the other guys it would work exactly the same way except the CBCS AW would be wearing a different color shirt.

And you are entitled to yours, but I’m done with this system and you
Post 30 IP   flag post
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