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Most buyers DO NOT CARE about grade4980

Collector doog private msg quote post Address this user
My son opened a comic book store this year. It will be open 1 year Jan 1st. Lessons; new comics are not real profitable, a dangerous area. You also need to set up at shows and sell on eBay. Have sales every couple of months. Do toys, figurines, cards, art, expensive consignments. Have a wallet full of cash (that’s not a problem, prices in general are still rising.
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I live in RI and Rhode Islanders eat chili with beans. esaravo private msg quote post Address this user
@doog - if your son has an ebay store, post a link to it here to see if you can get him some business!
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Collector doog private msg quote post Address this user
clickable text
Freaking kid is living My dream!
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Collector OrbitCityComics private msg quote post Address this user
I disagree. I believe most buyers, since the majority are collectors, do care about the grade. Most of us will not touch a modern below 9.8.

Since there is no scientific study, nor any actual scientific data to analyze, we'll never truly know.
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COLLECTOR shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrbitCityComics
I disagree. I believe most buyers, since the majority are collectors, do care about the grade. Most of us will not touch a modern below 9.8.


Good point. Look at the massive premium prices put on 9.8 books compared to 9.6.
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Collector doog private msg quote post Address this user
I agree with Orbit City. Grading and condition is known to all collectors. Those who just buy new books to read may not care as much, unless they start keeping a pile. But a lot of those (like my daughter) prefer graphic novels nowadays anyway for reading
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COLLECTOR conditionfreak private msg quote post Address this user
We should take a poll. Who here is a comic book reader almost exclusively, and who here is almost exclusively a collector.

Of course then there are the flippers, the investors, the reader/collectors, the readers/collectors/investors/ The reader/collector/investor/flippers. Those that run comic book business' for fun and some for profit. Then come those of us who are trying to bound with our kids, or our father, through comics, and then the wives who pretend to be interested in comic books to bound with their man. Then come the ............

Oh, never mind. Too complicated.

Go back to arguing who can beat up whom. Hulk or Superman.

(pssst, here is a hint)


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Collector Homer private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by shrewbeer
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrbitCityComics
I disagree. I believe most buyers, since the majority are collectors, do care about the grade. Most of us will not touch a modern below 9.8.


Good point. Look at the massive premium prices put on 9.8 books compared to 9.6.


How does that compare to the massive amount of modern comics that are not 9.6 or 9.8.
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Collector Homer private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrbitCityComics
I disagree. I believe most buyers, since the majority are collectors, do care about the grade. Most of us will not touch a modern below 9.8.

Since there is no scientific study, nor any actual scientific data to analyze, we'll never truly know.


Superman 75 sold around 3 million copies, there are currently 1723 on the CGC census. Could you explain to me how the current owners of the 2,998,277 copies care about the grade. Would't they get them certified if it was that important?

I could conclude, "most" of the owners of Superman 75 do not care if they are 9.8.
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COLLECTOR conditionfreak private msg quote post Address this user
I don't think I could automatically conclude that, from that.

I have thousands of books that have importance to me what grade they are. For instance, at least fifty Todd McFarlane's Spiderman #1's in its various forms. But I have submitted none of them for grading. Not one.

Grade exists with or without slabbing. And so does its importance to me.

Where the professional grading and slabbing comes into play, is with internet sales and security mostly, but some showing off also has to be factored.
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Collector OrbitCityComics private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Homer
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrbitCityComics
I disagree. I believe most buyers, since the majority are collectors, do care about the grade. Most of us will not touch a modern below 9.8.

Since there is no scientific study, nor any actual scientific data to analyze, we'll never truly know.


Superman 75 sold around 3 million copies, there are currently 1723 on the CGC census. Could you explain to me how the current owners of the 2,998,277 copies care about the grade. Would't they get them certified if it was that important?

I could conclude, "most" of the owners of Superman 75 do not care if they are 9.8.


I'll speak for myself here. I have over 40,000 comics, and only a small fraction of them are graded, BUT I care about the condition of each and every book.

I have tons of 9.8 candidates that I'm not grading any time soon.

I also have books that o bought online that I know aren't 9.8 candidates once I received them. Sometimes you roll the dice when you preorder.

I have over 35 copies of Superman 75.
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Collector Logan510 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrbitCityComics
Quote:
Originally Posted by Homer
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrbitCityComics
I disagree. I believe most buyers, since the majority are collectors, do care about the grade. Most of us will not touch a modern below 9.8.

Since there is no scientific study, nor any actual scientific data to analyze, we'll never truly know.


Superman 75 sold around 3 million copies, there are currently 1723 on the CGC census. Could you explain to me how the current owners of the 2,998,277 copies care about the grade. Would't they get them certified if it was that important?

I could conclude, "most" of the owners of Superman 75 do not care if they are 9.8.


I'll speak for myself here. I have over 40,000 comics, and only a small fraction of them are graded, BUT I care about the condition of each and every book.

I have tons of 9.8 candidates that I'm not grading any time soon.

I also have books that o bought online that I know aren't 9.8 candidates once I received them. Sometimes you roll the dice when you preorder.

I have over 35 copies of Superman 75.


Amen.
I certainly care about the condition of my books and prefer unslabbed copies. I think I own 10-15 slabs but the vast majority of my collection isn't slabbed and probably never will be.
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Collector Logan510 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by doog
I agree with Orbit City. Grading and condition is known to all collectors. Those who just buy new books to read may not care as much, unless they start keeping a pile. But a lot of those (like my daughter) prefer graphic novels nowadays anyway for reading


There is a section of fandom that looks at comics as the disposable entertainment they were originally intended to be. Some take this further and wear as a badge of honor that all their books are "loved and well read" AKA beat the hell up, as if one cannot have books in excellent shape that are not loved and well read.

It's a silly frame of mind IMHO. I may think the way certain people handle their collections is goofy, but I would never begrudge them their right to do it how they wish.
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Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrbitCityComics
I disagree. I believe most buyers, since the majority are collectors, do care about the grade. Most of us will not touch a modern below 9.8.

Since there is no scientific study, nor any actual scientific data to analyze, we'll never truly know.


The majority of people who buy comics are not collectors.

Not even close.

The majority...by far...of the people who buy comics are readers.

This is not impossible to know. While scientific studies are possible, the fact is, it only takes a bit of common sense to see that this is true. Since the vast majority of the comics being published are not, and do not become, "collector's items", and yet, they are actively purchased at the time of publication (or they wouldn't be published), it's fairly obvious that the buyers of those books, for the most part, are not collectors.

It is erroneous to state that the majority of people who buy comics are collectors.

As stated before, this thread isn't about whether or not people believe the premise. This thread is about the people who ARE collectors, who care PRIMARILY about condition, and how they can benefit in a comics world that does not care about their pickiness.
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Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Homer
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrbitCityComics
I disagree. I believe most buyers, since the majority are collectors, do care about the grade. Most of us will not touch a modern below 9.8.

Since there is no scientific study, nor any actual scientific data to analyze, we'll never truly know.


Superman 75 sold around 3 million copies, there are currently 1723 on the CGC census. Could you explain to me how the current owners of the 2,998,277 copies care about the grade. Would't they get them certified if it was that important?

I could conclude, "most" of the owners of Superman 75 do not care if they are 9.8.


Very true.

It's worth noting...again...that this is a COMIC BOOK SLABBING FORUM. It is naturally going to be populated by people to whom condition is the primary focus of their comic collecting.

By the way...this is also true about coins. The vast majority of people who own, for example, Morgan dollars do not care about their condition. Hundreds of millions of them exist, and the vast majority of them are owned by people for their silver content....not their condition.
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Collector Logan510 private msg quote post Address this user
Knowing whether or not the "majority...by far" of people who buy comics are readers or collectors is impossible to know.

But...

In this day and age where the majority of comics are not impulse purchase items and you have to pretty much actively seek them out ( going to a LCS ), I would posit that the majority of those people are collectors rather than just readers. Are we assuming that "readers" don't keep their comic books? If they do, that would make them "collectors".
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Collector doog private msg quote post Address this user
Hoarders, I believe the term is “hoarders”. In my short time, I have seen some insane hoards. Sometimes piles everywhere, boxes, not so much. And a fair number of guys who box books, and have garages and basements full. And multiple storage units. That could explain all the extras. Fun to go fishing, if you can crack some loose.
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Suck it up, buttercup!! KatKomics private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logan510
Knowing whether or not the "majority...by far" of people who buy comics are readers or collectors is impossible to know.

But...

In this day and age where the majority of comics are not impulse purchase items and you have to pretty much actively seek them out ( going to a LCS ), I would posit that the majority of those people are collectors rather than just readers. Are we assuming that "readers" don't keep their comic books? If they do, that would make them "collectors".


Welllll......some 'collectors' are crazy though. Buying multiples of new books speculating on a future value, buying multiple variant covers of the same book etc. Now don't get me wrong, I collect too. Have multiples of the same issue but usually of a silver or bronze in an attempt to get better grades of what I already have, and although I fell for the variant trap on Barbarella I haven't sought out and purposely bought a variant/2nd/3rd print etc. since the 90's

I don't think keeping the books makes you a collector.
I read all my modern purchases and keep them - collecting??
I know 99% of these titles will never be worth much more than cover, is it collecting because I don't throw them out? I had my LCS pull 'The Massive' or 'Starve' or even 'Y-The Last Man' because I liked the story and kept it maybe because there is a little bit of hoarder in me or OCD (gotta have the full run!), but not because it was ever going to be a collectible.
I suppose I could buy digital versions or trades to read and once I or the market puts a value on a book I could go back and get a physical copy for 'collecting' but I very much prefer reading a tangible item (as I like my novels)

Could I get lucky and something gets a TV show or Movie deal - maybe? Very unlikely for most of what is out there.

I've bought 100 book lots for $40 to get 1 or 2 issues worth $40 each - the others are either in to poor a condition for even bird cage lining or I'll try and trade for store credit or they may go in the bin and I'll still have under paid for the books I 'needed' - anyone want non-key bronze Supes/Action/Detective/WW/Flash/GL etc etc. didn't think so - even most collectors don't want them hence 30/40yrs on they are only worth $10-$20 each
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Collector Homer private msg quote post Address this user
Sure people collect and put them in boxes instead of throwing them in the trash. Just because someone collects them, does not mean they are willing to pay extra, to get a higher grade copy of the exact same issue number. They settle for a close enough grade.

I recently was at a show where there was a massive $2.00 booth. I looked through quite of few of the boxes, the comics were kinda high grade, but nothing really 9.4 or better quality. Collectors were elbow to elbow pulling stacks and checking there phones for issue numbers. I do not recall much of anyone taking them out of the bag. Oh the horror, there could be a flaw or dog ear on the back cover. I guess they must not of been overly condition sensitive, as it looked good enough from the front.
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Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by doog
Hoarders, I believe the term is “hoarders”. In my short time, I have seen some insane hoards. Sometimes piles everywhere, boxes, not so much. And a fair number of guys who box books, and have garages and basements full. And multiple storage units. That could explain all the extras. Fun to go fishing, if you can crack some loose.


That's correct.

Without getting too far afield, though I do love a good tangent or 15, this side discussion depends on how one defines a "collector" vs. someone who is just a hoarder.

I think...and definitions generally agree...that a collector is someone who meets the following criteria:

1. Keeps at least some level of organization.

2. Maintains at least a degree of care for the items collected, so regardless of their condition upon purchase, they don't degrade further.

3. Is interested in obtaining "complete" sets of items (however they define "complete" and works towards that goal, both purchasing, and educating themselves about what they need.

4. Has an interest in sharing his or her collection with other like-minded individuals (as in "showing them off", not lending them out.)

5. Keeps close track of his collection, and doesn't let people wander off with some of it.

6. Cares about the potential financial value of the items.

In other words, the items they have mean something to them for what they are, rather than their potential as entertainment/kindling/etc.

A hoarder, on the other hand:

1. Doesn't care about organization.

2. Doesn't care about further degradation.

3. Has no interest in "completing sets."

4. Sees no point in "sharing" his or her "hoard" with others, because that's not their purpose.

5. Conversely, doesn't mind if someone takes some for their own purposes.

6. Has no interest in any financial value his/her items may have.

Obviously those are generalizations that don't fit every scenario, but the main difference between a collector and a hoarder is "how much does the person care about the items he/she has?"

In any event, I think that, if people understand that Homer's scenario above is by far the most common, the ultra-picky can manage their expectations a little better.
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Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
If a person has a couple of hundred comics piled in the closet haphazardly, with no thought to their condition, organization, value, or completeness, can anyone really call that person a "collector"...?
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Collector BabaLament private msg quote post Address this user
According to you Doc', I'm somewhere between "collector" and "hoarder" at the moment.

I *had* everything organized alphabetically (by tile) & numerically (by issue), then I went and bought a 27-longbox collection...and a 19-shortbox collection...

My living room looks like Amazon Hell; comic boxes everywhere with the occasional pile of BCW boxes full of bags/boards/toploaders spread amongst the insanity. I'm pretty sure every time a package gets delivered (more comics), the fire marshal feels a disturbance in the force. Its at the point where my house has enough fuel in it, the fire would be visible from space, and give the California wildfires a run for their money.

I haven't had a day off in a couple of weeks, so as much as I would love to devote some time and attention to getting things organized and back on the storage racks, it hasn't been possible...

Yet each morning as I sip my coffee, I look across the corrugated landscape, and saw that it was good.
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Collector Homer private msg quote post Address this user
You have to ask yourself if you have ever bought a back issue comic book bagged and boarded at a comic shop, and didn’t remove it for inspection.

You wanted it, you needed it, but condition was identified as close enough by the front cover only.

Maybe your criteria is it’s a cover price common back issue, but a $50.00 collector item your going the full nine yards and do a page count inspection.
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Collector Lonestar private msg quote post Address this user
I agree with @DocBrown to a certain extent that most buyers "do not care about grade". But that also has to be coupled with price. Many buyers (who may also collectors) do not have the financial means or even the desire to pay what it would cost to acquire a NM run of a particular series.

Thus it begins to be something of a cost/benefit analysis for each buyer (collector) on what they will buy, what they will settle for in the way of grade and how much they'll spend for that comic in that grade.

The Fantastic Four was one of the first comics I bought and read many, many years ago. For many years, I slowly tried to put together a full run. I didn't, at that time, have the funds to buy high grade copies of them as I found them, so I settled for lower grade affordable copies. (And was happy to do that as I got to read the comics.) I'm certainly a collector and I in general care about grade, but I did and to some extent still do fall into the category of "do not care about grade".

I think most buyers do not care about grade, as long as they are getting it at a fair price. Those that only buy high grade copies of anything are the exception to the rule.
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Collector OrbitCityComics private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonestar
I agree with @DocBrown to a certain extent that most buyers "do not care about grade". But that also has to be coupled with price. Many buyers (who may also collectors) do not have the financial means or even the desire to pay what it would cost to acquire a NM run of a particular series.

Thus it begins to be something of a cost/benefit analysis for each buyer (collector) on what they will buy, what they will settle for in the way of grade and how much they'll spend for that comic in that grade.

The Fantastic Four was one of the first comics I bought and read many, many years ago. For many years, I slowly tried to put together a full run. I didn't, at that time, have the funds to buy high grade copies of them as I found them, so I settled for lower grade affordable copies. (And was happy to do that as I got to read the comics.) I'm certainly a collector and I in general care about grade, but I did and to some extent still do fall into the category of "do not care about grade".

I think most buyers do not care about grade, as long as they are getting it at a fair price. Those that only buy high grade copies of anything are the exception to the rule.


I understand your sentiment, but disagree with your final conclusion.

I care about grades, and I keep my books in the best condition possible.

Do I read them? Most of them, but not all. Some are just investments, some are flips, and some are future inventory.

Does a book have to be in pristine shape for me to buy it? No. But the price I am willing to pay is based on its condition. I'm not going to throw 9.8 money at a 9.0 book - the price I'm willing to pay is based on my care about the condition.

In the end, it's really a matter of perspective.

I truly believe, and again I reiterate that there is no actual evidence to back any one person's belief on, that most buyers do care about the grade of their book when shelling out their cash.

Only a fool is going to pay cover price for Super Sons #5 that has no cover, dog eared corners and three missing pages.
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Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrbitCityComics
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonestar
I agree with @DocBrown to a certain extent that most buyers "do not care about grade". But that also has to be coupled with price. Many buyers (who may also collectors) do not have the financial means or even the desire to pay what it would cost to acquire a NM run of a particular series.

Thus it begins to be something of a cost/benefit analysis for each buyer (collector) on what they will buy, what they will settle for in the way of grade and how much they'll spend for that comic in that grade.

The Fantastic Four was one of the first comics I bought and read many, many years ago. For many years, I slowly tried to put together a full run. I didn't, at that time, have the funds to buy high grade copies of them as I found them, so I settled for lower grade affordable copies. (And was happy to do that as I got to read the comics.) I'm certainly a collector and I in general care about grade, but I did and to some extent still do fall into the category of "do not care about grade".

I think most buyers do not care about grade, as long as they are getting it at a fair price. Those that only buy high grade copies of anything are the exception to the rule.


I understand your sentiment, but disagree with your final conclusion.

I care about grades, and I keep my books in the best condition possible.

Do I read them? Most of them, but not all. Some are just investments, some are flips, and some are future inventory.

Does a book have to be in pristine shape for me to buy it? No. But the price I am willing to pay is based on its condition. I'm not going to throw 9.8 money at a 9.0 book - the price I'm willing to pay is based on my care about the condition.

In the end, it's really a matter of perspective.

I truly believe, and again I reiterate that there is no actual evidence to back any one person's belief on, that most buyers do care about the grade of their book when shelling out their cash.

Only a fool is going to pay cover price for Super Sons #5 that has no cover, dog eared corners and three missing pages.


Yes, it really is a matter of perspective. You're looking at it from your own point of view, rather than looking at the market as a whole.

There has already been evidence given, which you reject. Rejecting evidence doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You go to extreme hyperbole ("only a fool is going to pay cover price for Super Sons #5 that has no cover, dog eared corners and three missing pages" ) which has already been discussed and conceded.

No one disputes your hyperbole. No one has said anything even remotely like that. Everyone in this discussion would agree that everyone cares about condition to the extent that they're not going to bother with a no value book missing its cover and three pages.

As always, it's a discussion of degree.

And if you believe that all, most, or even a plurality of buyers are buying their comics with an eye towards condition, then how do you explain the fact that Barnes & Noble sells comics...? Or the local newsstand? Or the fact that the majority of comic stores (which IS easily proven) put their new comics on their shelves with no bag and board? And yet, those places manage to sell not just most, but all of the new comics.

If most of the buyers care about the condition/grade of the book they're buying, those books would be protected. But they're not. They're just on the shelves, which everyone can thumb through and mangle at will.

You say "you're not going to throw 9.8 money at a 9.0." Correct. You are the very exception that is the impetus for this thread. But for the vast majority of buyers of comics, "9.8" and "9.0", along with all the other grades, never even enter their mind. If a 9.8 and a 9.0 are the same price, those buyers won't care. They'll grab one and buy it. We see this played out at comic shops and newsstands every week all over the world.

If the 9.8 is more expensive than the 9.0, (these are RAW COMICS we're talking about, here) then the buyer will buy the 9.0 copy...just because it costs less.

If people care about condition the way you claim, there would be at least some effort made to protect these books even minimally on the shelves.

There isn't.
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