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Art Original ArtworkCBCS Signature VSP

Blog post about VSP4945

Collector CopperAgeKids private msg quote post Address this user
What I don't like is the apparent overzealous posting of some people, who jump at any opportunity to discredit one of the only two reputable third party grading companies.

Wether it is railroading CGC because of their 4/4/2016 era holder that was prone to mechanical error...or doing the same to CBCS when CBCS introduced an updated holder in 2016 which was unpopular with some CBCS collectors for aesthetic reasons....and than again, more recently, when there was complaints about CBCS holders not having a sufficient heat seal.

Both companies continually address any legitimate problems as they arise
... and the issues I noted above were all corrected, on that note.

This cuts both ways.

And both ways hurt the third party graded comic market, as a whole.This is something that many fail to grasp.

As a supporter of the value that both CBCS and CGC bring to the market, I have to question the motivation of those who are so eager to paint either company in a distinctly unfavorable light.

CBCS clearly notates that Verified Signature Program only verifies unwitnessed signatures, and not unwitnessed sketches.

What else needs to be said?
Post 26 • IP   flag post
Collector KingNampa private msg quote post Address this user
@CopperAgeKids Yes I agree, Shame on Rob Ledfield. What an overzealous "contraindicated" person.
Post 27 • IP   flag post
Collector comic_book_man private msg quote post Address this user
(I sort of feel like a hypocrite as my CBCS VSP order just shipped-Rob Liefeld too lol) BUT...
My opinion is that while VSP and VOA are appealing offerings for CBCS & PGX to have...

There is a reason CGC doesn't offer these things, it's a massive headache.

If it isn't witnessed, it's all the same. When you start "cherry-picking" unwitnessed signatures, it hurts authors/artists by making their mistake books invalid(smear, sneezed, cut-off, marker died, shaky hand, etc) and gives forgers a doorway to the "realm of validity" via "close enough" methods.

People can learn signature patterns and they can learn (close enough) how to copy art styles.
If you think they can't, you under estimate what skilled desperate people can accomplish.

This scenario is unique as it's a "real signature" but fake art - used in combination, why would anyone assume that it isn't a pair? To amateur collectors, the author is "signing off" on the art "he drew" with his name at the bottom, it doesn't seem suspicious ... this was a very clever scheme in which "process" was taken advantage of (signed a blank, faked the art, label says valid signature-art is assumed), I hope he didn't make any money off of it (I didn't read all the details), and bravo to Rob for exposing this dirt bag forger.

I wish VSP & VOA could exist without this, but it will ALWAYS have people testing the fence for weakness, just as they do with everything else.

...again, this is just my view. I'm not arguing anything.
Post 28 • IP   flag post
Collector det_tobor private msg quote post Address this user
I would say include a pix of the artist, buyer + art piece (with or without signature) "in" the label like a hologram...but Photoshop today might laugh about that.
Post 29 • IP   flag post
Collector CopperAgeKids private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingNampa
@CopperAgeKids Yes I agree, Shame on Rob Ledfield. What an overzealous "contraindicated" person.


What?

Leifeld said nothing wrong, quite the opposite. He called out a dishonest seller.

You have maligned CBCS repeatedly, since CBCS introduced a redesigned holder in 2016.

Your posts in this thread show a continued pattern of behavior, which really contributes nothing of substantial value to discussion.

Anyone can post memes, which address nothing.

Your passive aggressive personal attacks against me are also pretty ridiculous.

I am not the only board member who has called you out on this, either.

More recently, you sold an X-Men #1 CBCS Authorized Witness Program Stan Lee sig,gold label via no reserve auction, which didn't sell at GPA...you than posted on this board that CBCS graded books bring lower dollar returns.

You failed to realize that the timing of your auction was poor i.e. it ended on a Monday or Sunday morning.

In short, you are blaming others for your mistakes.

Please stop.
Post 30 • IP   flag post


COLLECTOR kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user
But a key book suck as xmen 1 probably doesn't matter if it's Monday morning tho right?
Post 31 • IP   flag post
Collector KingNampa private msg quote post Address this user
@CopperAgeKids stop personally attacking me you bully. You make big claims about me maligning cbcs but have no proof. Stop slandering me please. K thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by CopperAgeKids
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingNampa
@CopperAgeKids Yes I agree, Shame on Rob Ledfield. What an overzealous "contraindicated" person.


What?

Leifeld said nothing wrong, quite the opposite. He called out a dishonest seller.

You have maligned CBCS repeatedly, since CBCS introduced a redesigned holder in 2016.

Your posts in this thread show a continued pattern of behavior, which really contributes nothing of substantial value to discussion.

Anyone can post memes, which address nothing.

Your passive aggressive personal attacks against me are also pretty ridiculous.

I am not the only board member who has called you out on this, either.

More recently, you sold an X-Men #1 CBCS Authorized Witness Program Stan Lee sig,gold label via no reserve auction, which didn't sell at GPA...you than posted on this board that CBCS graded books bring lower dollar returns.

You failed to realize that the timing of your auction was poor i.e. it ended on a Monday or Sunday morning.

In short, you are blaming others for your mistakes.

Please stop.
Post 32 • IP   flag post
Collector comic_book_man private msg quote post Address this user
@CopperAgeKids King isn't blaming anyone that I've read in this thread, and he also didn't say Rob did anything wrong, you put those words in his mouth...he was just teasing you about the other thread post you had.

I've been seeing the two of you go at it for a while, and in King's defense most of the posts I've seen you do CAK are negative. Not to say King is void of that, but his thumbs ups are higher and when he gets riled up it's generally just against your long statements.

Can't we all just get along?
I mean we only have days left before North Korea strikes and the Ice Caps melt. ☹ (poor taste joke if it actually happens)
Post 33 • IP   flag post
Collector KingNampa private msg quote post Address this user
@comic_book_man thanks for saying that. I’m over it and would like to have fun and constructive conversations. I don’t personally attack people and I use CBCS For grading. So I don’t get it. CAK has it out for me?
Post 34 • IP   flag post
Collector X51 private msg quote post Address this user
Everyone should have a right to an opinion. Applaud to those who are willing to speak it despite controversy. Shame on anyone who is only concerned with negating that right. If everyone sat around agreeing with each other, I'd get bored very quickly.
Post 35 • IP   flag post
Collector poka private msg quote post Address this user
I have this feeling that the CBCS Forum Moderation and Suspension thread is about to get another post! Anyway I am amazed that there has been no posts for 20 days. Good job everyone so far.
Post 36 • IP   flag post
Collector AndyRexia private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by poka
I have this feeling that the CBCS Forum Moderation and Suspension thread is about to get another post! Anyway I am amazed that there has been no posts for 20 days. Good job everyone so far.

No kidding lol. I watch that thread just waiting in anticipation...
Post 37 • IP   flag post
COLLECTOR kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user

Post 38 • IP   flag post
COLLECTOR shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by X51
Everyone should have a right to an opinion. Applaud to those who are willing to speak it despite controversy. Shame on anyone who is only concerned with negating that right. If everyone sat around agreeing with each other, I'd get bored very quickly.


Absolutely!

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingNampa
@comic_book_man thanks for saying that. I’m over it and would like to have fun and constructive conversations. I don’t personally attack people and I use CBCS For grading. So I don’t get it. CAK has it out for me?


Quote:
Originally Posted by CopperAgeKids
You have maligned CBCS repeatedly, since CBCS introduced a redesigned holder in 2016

Some of CBCS’s toughest critics use them exclusively for grading. Thats a good thing. Nothing wrong with it.

#DL
Post 39 • IP   flag post
Collector robertofredrico private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by spaulus
While it is something that CBCS takes seriously and will look into, it is important to note that CBCS does not confirm the authenticity of the sketches submitted to us under the Verified Signature Program.



But the label header says: "Authentic Signature & Artwork"

?



Post 40 • IP   flag post
COLLECTOR shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertofredrico
But the label header says: "Authentic Signature & Artwork


This is precisely why Americans should use the Oxford comma, always.

“Authentic Signature, and Artwork”
Post 41 • IP   flag post
COLLECTOR kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user

Post 42 • IP   flag post
COLLECTOR kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user

Post 43 • IP   flag post
Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by X51
Everyone should have a right to an opinion. Applaud to those who are willing to speak it despite controversy. Shame on anyone who is only concerned with negating that right. If everyone sat around agreeing with each other, I'd get bored very quickly.


There is a substantial and fundamental difference between voicing one's opinions about a topic, and voicing one's opinions about a person discussing the topic.

The majority of the history of the CBCS forum has been people trying to silence dissenting opinions by first passive/aggressively taking veiled shots at others, followed by aggressive "calling out" of people that has nothing whatsoever to do with the topic at hand, then posting "IBTL!" and endless memes to that effect to practically dare moderators to lock the threads involved, which they have been more than willing to oblige. Couple that with the regular calls to ban so and so, and you've got the situation that lasted for well over a year.

That's not honest disagreement. That's grade school tactics. Lord of the Flies. Shutting down discussion by shutting down the people you don't like.

I agree with you; silencing opposition is bad for everyone. But there's no need to make it personal, and never has been.

There needs to be a lot more attention paid to where these flareups start. They don't spring up out of nothing, and perspective is necessary. What someone thinks is "no big deal; lighten up Francis" is almost always a "big deal" to the target. If the motive is "I'm going to take a jab at this person I don't like", that's the one starting the fight. It's especially egregious when they then protest their "innocence", as if everyone's too stupid to figure it out.

Frankly, the last two months have been immensely better around here, as the troublemakers have either reined themselves in, or left for greener pastures. I am very grateful for the change.
Post 44 • IP   flag post
Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertofredrico
Quote:
Originally Posted by spaulus
While it is something that CBCS takes seriously and will look into, it is important to note that CBCS does not confirm the authenticity of the sketches submitted to us under the Verified Signature Program.



But the label header says: "Authentic Signature & Artwork"

?





Yeah, that does present a problem that needs to be addressed.
Post 45 • IP   flag post
Collector Logan510 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by X51
Everyone should have a right to an opinion. Applaud to those who are willing to speak it despite controversy. Shame on anyone who is only concerned with negating that right. If everyone sat around agreeing with each other, I'd get bored very quickly.


There's a difference between stating an opposing opinion and stating an opposing opinion doing so in the most caustic, least friendly way possible.
Post 46 • IP   flag post
COLLECTOR kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user

Post 47 • IP   flag post
Collector X51 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logan510
Quote:
Originally Posted by X51
Everyone should have a right to an opinion. Applaud to those who are willing to speak it despite controversy. Shame on anyone who is only concerned with negating that right. If everyone sat around agreeing with each other, I'd get bored very quickly.


There's a difference between stating an opposing opinion and stating an opposing opinion doing so in the most caustic, least friendly way possible.


When an opinion differs from something we feel strongly about, it's easy to feel that way even when it's not the case. Some people sound caustic and neither feel that way nor do they know they sound that way.
Post 48 • IP   flag post
Collector Logan510 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by X51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logan510
Quote:
Originally Posted by X51
Everyone should have a right to an opinion. Applaud to those who are willing to speak it despite controversy. Shame on anyone who is only concerned with negating that right. If everyone sat around agreeing with each other, I'd get bored very quickly.


There's a difference between stating an opposing opinion and stating an opposing opinion doing so in the most caustic, least friendly way possible.


When an opinion differs from something we feel strongly about, it's easy to feel that way even when it's not the case. Some people sound caustic and neither feel that way nor do they know they sound that way.


I agree, some people don't have enough self awareness to realize they're being obnoxious.
Post 49 • IP   flag post
Collector jimmylinguini private msg quote post Address this user
I don't think CBCS is handling this the correct way.

Explaining that errors some times happen and that its something you guys are working on in house would go a long way.
Post 50 • IP   flag post
Collector jimmylinguini private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertofredrico
Quote:
Originally Posted by spaulus
While it is something that CBCS takes seriously and will look into, it is important to note that CBCS does not confirm the authenticity of the sketches submitted to us under the Verified Signature Program.



But the label header says: "Authentic Signature & Artwork"

?





Notice the raw artwork at the top of this image.
Sal Bucema and Herb Trimpe. Those are two examples of artwork that were rejected by CBCS which leads me to believe this person was manufacturing fake artwork.
Post 51 • IP   flag post
Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by X51

When an opinion differs from something we feel strongly about, it's easy to feel that way even when it's not the case. Some people sound caustic and neither feel that way nor do they know they sound that way.


That's absolutely true. And there are a lot of people who are absurdly oversensitive, and see insult and offense in any and every comment. People who are actively seeking to be offended, and who take it upon themselves to lecture everyone else about social interaction, when they're the worst offenders of all. They rush in like white knights, to "save" people from the "meanies", when they were neither asked nor needed to do any "saving."

It's a strange, heavily ironic world we find ourselves in.
Post 52 • IP   flag post
COLLECTOR conditionfreak private msg quote post Address this user
The grading company is at fault. Not any seller or even an amateur artist who may or may not be trying to fraud others. Of course almost every case would be a fraud attempt, IMO.

If you are going to have a company that certifies a signature on a drawn page to be legit. It is incumbent upon said grading company to directly address on the label, that the signature was either witnessed or verified by authentication, and the artwork on the book should not be assumed to be by the signee if it was not witnessed.

You can't just leave it out there hanging.

"VERIFIED SIGNATURE, ARTWORK UNVERIFIED" would be one way to go.
Post 53 • IP   flag post
Collector antoniofett private msg quote post Address this user
I love Sending books in for VSP! I hope it's here to stay! Go CBCS!
Post 54 • IP   flag post
Collector det_tobor private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaptainmyke

How about..(Art Piece) with (an authentic signature). ?? Problem is wording and making something clearer based on audience perception and feedback. Just a question of a little fine tuning.
Post 55 • IP   flag post
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