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Art Original ArtworkCBCS Signature VSP

Blog post about VSP4945

CBCS spaulus private msg quote post Address this user
A recent article posted in Bleeding Cool implied that CBCS certified forged artwork under our Original Art VSP label. Based on what the article stated, it appears that some comic books artists have questioned the authenticity of the sketches that were encapsulated under our Verified Signature Label.

While it is something that CBCS takes seriously and will look into, it is important to note that CBCS does not confirm the authenticity of the sketches submitted to us under the Verified Signature Program. The fact is, that CBCS does not address the artwork on our label unless a CBCS Authorized Witness is present when the sketch is given to the owner by the artist. The Verified Signature Program was created so comic book fans have the opportunity to verify the authenticity of unwitnessed signatures on comic books and other media that can be encapsulated.

Two more things I want to note. First, CBCS was never contacted by Bleeding Cool for a comment until after they posted their article. Also to the best of my knowledge, no CBCS representative was asked to comment on the creator’s claim that the artwork was not genuine.
Post 1 • IP   flag post
Collector det_tobor private msg quote post Address this user
then how was this article originated and why?
Post 2 • IP   flag post
Collector bythegram private msg quote post Address this user
Does this have something to do with that Leifeld instagram Post?

https://instagram.com/p/BcITYJ2Fwde/

If so, the original post was claiming the art was varified by PGX and CBCS, which clearly makes no sense. They also provided zero evidence to support the claim that the art had been “verified”

Here is a response from the original poster which drags CBCS into this mess

https://instagram.com/p/BcIYkukBbW9/
Post 3 • IP   flag post
COLLECTOR kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user
Yeah all my red label ART ones just say "sketch on cover" but it says "verified sigs" etc

Well, you top dogs at CBCS are going to have to issue a retraction request notice then, now aren't you?
Post 4 • IP   flag post
COLLECTOR BigRig private msg quote post Address this user
Are the sigs verified on the sketches fake? That's what is the question. Why would they sign a fake sketch? Don't think thy would yet it passed vsp. Not a good sign...
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Collector Darkga private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRig
Are the sigs verified on the sketches fake? That's what is the question. Why would they sign a fake sketch? Don't think thy would yet it passed vsp. Not a good sign...


The person probably got them to sign a blank sketch covet and THEN sketched a forged sketch on it.
Post 6 • IP   flag post
Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
Regardless of the facts of the situation, this "seller" is crude, hostile, aggressive, emotionally unstable, and unprofessional to an extreme degree.

This is a perfect example of a "person" who thinks with their feelings, rather than with reason. I suspect the hand-wringing, wildly overwrought reaction is because they got caught.

"Harassed"...?

No, folks, when someone catches you in illegal activities, they aren't "harassing" you. I bet Al Capone "felt" "harassed" by the Eliot Ness, too.

As far as the PGX COA is concerned...come on, folks, what is it going to take before people realize that PGX is a fraudulent company? Look at all the comments people have made about PGX being fraudulent over the years...if someone accused ME of fraud that wasn't true, I'd be taking them to court, and I'm nobody.

How many more of these have to surface before PGX is driven out of business for good? Or is Daniel Patterson just made of teflon, and can just pretend all this fraud doesn't exist, provided there will always be blind defenders of the company...?
Post 7 • IP   flag post
Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkga
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRig
Are the sigs verified on the sketches fake? That's what is the question. Why would they sign a fake sketch? Don't think thy would yet it passed vsp. Not a good sign...


The person probably got them to sign a blank sketch covet and THEN sketched a forged sketch on it.


That was my thought, too...a la the Stan Lee signature, which was then sketched over with Stan getting his brains bashed in by a baseball bat.
Post 8 • IP   flag post
COLLECTOR shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user
This is how bad rumors get started. Props to @spaulus for getting right out in front of this 🍺
Post 9 • IP   flag post
Collector poka private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkga
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRig
Are the sigs verified on the sketches fake? That's what is the question. Why would they sign a fake sketch? Don't think thy would yet it passed vsp. Not a good sign...


The person probably got them to sign a blank sketch covet and THEN sketched a forged sketch on it.


Artists should stop signing blank covers!
Post 10 • IP   flag post
Collector jimmylinguini private msg quote post Address this user
Have you ever asked a creator to sign a blank board before? They don't sign it in the places these pieces of signatures.

Also, Liefeld would not sign his art signature for a plain blank backing board so either the entire thing is fake or the entire thing is genuine.
Post 11 • IP   flag post
Collector poka private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmylinguini
Have you ever asked a creator to sign a blank board before? They don't sign it in the places these pieces of signatures.

Also, Liefeld would not sign his art signature for a plain blank backing board so either the entire thing is fake or the entire thing is genuine.


There are a few for sale on eBay incl capullo - just saying
Post 12 • IP   flag post
COLLECTOR Foghorn_Sam private msg quote post Address this user
OMG, the Russians have struck again. Now we have FAKE original art. Oh, the humanity!!!
Post 13 • IP   flag post
Collector KingNampa private msg quote post Address this user

Post 14 • IP   flag post
Collector Hcanes private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by spaulus
A recent article posted in Bleeding Cool implied that CBCS certified forged artwork under our Original Art VSP label. Based on what the article stated, it appears that some comic books artists have questioned the authenticity of the sketches that were encapsulated under our Verified Signature Label.

While it is something that CBCS takes seriously and will look into, it is important to note that CBCS does not confirm the authenticity of the sketches submitted to us under the Verified Signature Program. The fact is, that CBCS does not address the artwork on our label unless a CBCS Authorized Witness is present when the sketch is given to the owner by the artist. The Verified Signature Program was created so comic book fans have the opportunity to verify the authenticity of unwitnessed signatures on comic books and other media that can be encapsulated.

Two more things I want to note. First, CBCS was never contacted by Bleeding Cool for a comment until after they posted their article. Also to the best of my knowledge, no CBCS representative was asked to comment on the creator’s claim that the artwork was not genuine.


Not surprising as Bleeding Cool and CGC are in bed together.
Post 15 • IP   flag post
COLLECTOR shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hcanes
Not surprising as Bleeding Cool and CGC are in bed together.



Post 16 • IP   flag post
Collector Hcanes private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by shrewbeer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hcanes
Not surprising as Bleeding Cool and CGC are in bed together.






Post 17 • IP   flag post
Collector Hcanes private msg quote post Address this user
CGC also made sure to post bleeding cool's article on their Facebook page.
Post 18 • IP   flag post
Collector DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hcanes
CGC also made sure to post bleeding cool's article on their Facebook page.

Yellow journalism. If you want to call them journalists.
Post 19 • IP   flag post
Collector KingNampa private msg quote post Address this user
@spaulus Did you see the recent update on Bleeding Cool's news post? He is calling you out.




rec
Post 20 • IP   flag post
COLLECTOR kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user

Post 21 • IP   flag post
COLLECTOR kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user
Legally you should remove that line of text from all your red label ART labels because that is not the case. It is misinformation and misrepresentation.
Post 22 • IP   flag post
Collector AndyRexia private msg quote post Address this user
@kaptainmyke when did this change I wonder? My red Art label only says “verified sig” and “sketch on board”
Post 23 • IP   flag post
Witnessed cigs dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingNampa
@spaulus Did you see the recent update on Bleeding Cool's news post? He is calling you out.




rec


Wondering how a signature can be authentic and not the sketch? Seriously?

People get blank covers signed all the time and getting a signature is a hell of a lot cheaper than getting a sketch or commission. That guy’s just making up flaws where there isn’t one.
Post 24 • IP   flag post
COLLECTOR BigRig private msg quote post Address this user

Post 25 • IP   flag post
Collector CopperAgeKids private msg quote post Address this user
What I don't like is the apparent overzealous posting of some people, who jump at any opportunity to discredit one of the only two reputable third party grading companies.

Wether it is railroading CGC because of their 4/4/2016 era holder that was prone to mechanical error...or doing the same to CBCS when CBCS introduced an updated holder in 2016 which was unpopular with some CBCS collectors for aesthetic reasons....and than again, more recently, when there was complaints about CBCS holders not having a sufficient heat seal.

Both companies continually address any legitimate problems as they arise
... and the issues I noted above were all corrected, on that note.

This cuts both ways.

And both ways hurt the third party graded comic market, as a whole.This is something that many fail to grasp.

As a supporter of the value that both CBCS and CGC bring to the market, I have to question the motivation of those who are so eager to paint either company in a distinctly unfavorable light.

CBCS clearly notates that Verified Signature Program only verifies unwitnessed signatures, and not unwitnessed sketches.

What else needs to be said?
Post 26 • IP   flag post
Collector KingNampa private msg quote post Address this user
@CopperAgeKids Yes I agree, Shame on Rob Ledfield. What an overzealous "contraindicated" person.
Post 27 • IP   flag post
Collector comic_book_man private msg quote post Address this user
(I sort of feel like a hypocrite as my CBCS VSP order just shipped-Rob Liefeld too lol) BUT...
My opinion is that while VSP and VOA are appealing offerings for CBCS & PGX to have...

There is a reason CGC doesn't offer these things, it's a massive headache.

If it isn't witnessed, it's all the same. When you start "cherry-picking" unwitnessed signatures, it hurts authors/artists by making their mistake books invalid(smear, sneezed, cut-off, marker died, shaky hand, etc) and gives forgers a doorway to the "realm of validity" via "close enough" methods.

People can learn signature patterns and they can learn (close enough) how to copy art styles.
If you think they can't, you under estimate what skilled desperate people can accomplish.

This scenario is unique as it's a "real signature" but fake art - used in combination, why would anyone assume that it isn't a pair? To amateur collectors, the author is "signing off" on the art "he drew" with his name at the bottom, it doesn't seem suspicious ... this was a very clever scheme in which "process" was taken advantage of (signed a blank, faked the art, label says valid signature-art is assumed), I hope he didn't make any money off of it (I didn't read all the details), and bravo to Rob for exposing this dirt bag forger.

I wish VSP & VOA could exist without this, but it will ALWAYS have people testing the fence for weakness, just as they do with everything else.

...again, this is just my view. I'm not arguing anything.
Post 28 • IP   flag post
Collector det_tobor private msg quote post Address this user
I would say include a pix of the artist, buyer + art piece (with or without signature) "in" the label like a hologram...but Photoshop today might laugh about that.
Post 29 • IP   flag post
Collector CopperAgeKids private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingNampa
@CopperAgeKids Yes I agree, Shame on Rob Ledfield. What an overzealous "contraindicated" person.


What?

Leifeld said nothing wrong, quite the opposite. He called out a dishonest seller.

You have maligned CBCS repeatedly, since CBCS introduced a redesigned holder in 2016.

Your posts in this thread show a continued pattern of behavior, which really contributes nothing of substantial value to discussion.

Anyone can post memes, which address nothing.

Your passive aggressive personal attacks against me are also pretty ridiculous.

I am not the only board member who has called you out on this, either.

More recently, you sold an X-Men #1 CBCS Authorized Witness Program Stan Lee sig,gold label via no reserve auction, which didn't sell at GPA...you than posted on this board that CBCS graded books bring lower dollar returns.

You failed to realize that the timing of your auction was poor i.e. it ended on a Monday or Sunday morning.

In short, you are blaming others for your mistakes.

Please stop.
Post 30 • IP   flag post
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