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Interesting Article on Marvel4340

Collector neyko private msg quote post Address this user
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As it happens, speculation is an inherent feature of the direct market. Unlike in traditional publishing, comics sold to retailers through the direct market can’t be returned for a refund. So retailers have to preorder comics months in advance, knowing that if they order too many, they’ll be stuck with the overstock. Marvel and DC largely judge sales based on these preorders, and a low number of initial preorders can lead a publisher to cancel a series before a customer ever gets a chance to buy the first issue. There’s an incentive for publishers to push out as much product as they think the market will bear, and a narrow window for feedback. Due to the preorder system, books that might reach out to new audiences—such as those starring minority characters—are at an immense disadvantage right out of the gate. As a result, books like David F. Walker and Ramon Villalobos’s Nighthawk or Kate Leth and Brittney Williams’s Patsy Walker, AKA Hellcat!, and even spinoffs of popular series like Ta-Nehisi Coates’s Black Panther, like rarely last long before being canc
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Collector neyko private msg quote post Address this user
Marvel’s editor-in-chief Axel Alonso told an interviewer at March’s retail summit that he didn’t know if artists “[moved] the needle” anymore when it came to sales. The fact that Marvel has trained audiences to regard those artists as disposable doesn’t seem to have crossed his mind; nor does the possibility that buyers—like a few prospective comics fans I know—might be turned off by constantly rotating art teams.
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Collector neyko private msg quote post Address this user
For all of the cultural preeminence of Spider-Man or The Avengers, the superhero-comics industry remains a sideshow. The media conglomerates that own DC and Marvel use both publishers largely as intellectual-property farms, capitalizing on and adapting creators’ work for movies, television shows, licensing, and merchandise. That’s where the money is. Disney has very little incentive to invest in the future of the comic-book industry, or to attempt to help Marvel Comics reach new audiences, when they’re making millions on the latest Marvel film.
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Collector det_tobor private msg quote post Address this user
it still comes down to spin-off or new,
* good writing. emotional involvement. likeable art style.
vs
stoopid writing, no regard for the character, bad art, too expensive.

Fans have limited: budgets, time, & space. Make something worth their while.
@Neyko, the movies did not do as well as they have.
How many people went back to see Spidy's Homecoming vs past Spider movies? How about X-Men movies - same audience coming back again and again?
DC - think it was proud or happy with BATMAN VS SUPERMAN? I don't.
Movies need the audiences to keep coming back. They did for Wonder Woman. It can still be done with Q U A L I T Y.
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Collector X51 private msg quote post Address this user
The movies from Marvel Studios are doing well. The characters they've licensed out are not doing well. The industry is running off collectors and readers. They are to blame for all of their own woes. They think they can tell us what we want rather than gauge what we want and adjust accordingly.
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Collector moodswing private msg quote post Address this user
Maybe comics would do better if they matched the successful movies....just a thought.
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Collector det_tobor private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by moodswing
Maybe comics would do better if they matched the successful movies....just a thought.


which movie version of Spiderman. or. X-men. or Batman. or Superman? They change.
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Collector moodswing private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by det_tobor
Quote:
Originally Posted by moodswing
Maybe comics would do better if they matched the successful movies....just a thought.


which movie version of Spiderman. or. X-men. or Batman. or Superman? They change.


Are we talking about marvel or dc?
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Collector neyko private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by moodswing
Maybe comics would do better if they matched the successful movies....just a thought.

Such as the new Defenders comic book copying the Netflix show?

Maybe it is time to go back to selling comics in grocery stores and pharmacies.

Metal? Has anyone read that? Baaad.

We are taking about both D.C. and Marvel. The article is a good read if you read it.
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Collector neyko private msg quote post Address this user
The Brood is back. Mesphito is torturing Doom. Marvel is running on fumes regurgitating decades old ideas and canceling new ones out of the gate.
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Collector moodswing private msg quote post Address this user
I read the article but for some reason looked over that DC was named too. Probably because of the title of the thread.
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Collector KingNampa private msg quote post Address this user
Interesting read, thanks for the link.
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Collector det_tobor private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by neyko
The Brood is back. Mesphito is torturing Doom. Marvel is running on fumes regurgitating decades old ideas and canceling new ones out of the gate.


Neyko is aware of what is going on. DC & MARVEL BOTH.

by the way, Amazon has a NEW series of the Tick. This one is good.
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Collector Instant_Subtitles private msg quote post Address this user
Good read. Thanks. But honestly, Disney treats Marvel as an independent entity. And they only intervene when necessary. But the fact they do own Marvel has helped push the comic franchise into a more international front. So even if decide that collected editions is no longer enough to sustain a comic series, they can go back and publish whatever Kodansha and others have created.

As for Warner Bros., they have DC move from New York to their studio lot in Burbank. Which makes me think they are trying to be a tighter ship with the creative teams, along with maybe doing it for budgetary reasons. And while I do wonder what their practices towards DC can be, I can only presume they have been doing the "make money off the merchandising" practice as well. Which is the one practice that helps Disney profit off their owned subsidiaries.
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Collector neyko private msg quote post Address this user
It is possible that what is happening with Marvel is what happened to DC in the 80's. It might be becoming uncool.

But I say that doubtfully. Marvel has pulled itself back from this at least three times in the past: after the comic code scare, Jim Shooter's era and the 90's.

It's weird when I see better writing and art at Titan than at Marvel and D.C.
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Collector X51 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by neyko
It is possible that what is happening with Marvel is what happened to DC in the 80's. It might be becoming uncool.

But I say that doubtfully. Marvel has pulled itself back from this at least three times in the past: after the comic code scare, Jim Shooter's era and the 90's.

It's weird when I see better writing and art at Titan than at Marvel and D.C.


In the 60's and 70's, DC published self-contained stories about the characters and every issue was just a snapshot from the lives of the characters and the event in any one comic was inconsequential. Events in one comic didn't affect the next. There was no reason to buy the next issue. You could skip a dozen and get a new snaphot of their lives without missing anything. Marvel published ongoing stories where the events in one comic affected the next issues. You had to buy the next story if you wanted to keep up. If you missed an issue, you were driving around town to find out what you missed. Marvel's sales increased. DC was on the verge of canceling anything that didn't have Superman or Batman in it. By the 80's, Marvel had a lock on market share. It was a winning formula and the Marvel Studios are using it today. The comics industry isn't. The comics industry decided they could get sales on higher price point trade paperbacks if they went to self contained story arcs. So now you have 6 issue story arcs with a beginning and end. There's no reason to buy the next one. Every time a story arc ends, it's a jumping off point for a collector because the next universe reboot or gimmick is going to ignore most of what happened in the last one. There is no organic flow. They offend collectors by screwing with the numbering and creating multiple variants. There is no gauging customer satisfaction because series are cancelled and restarted on a whim. They have no idea what people actually liked because they are only concerned with how many extra (unsalable) copies they can trick a store into ordering.

Trade paperbacks are reprinted as soon as a series ends, so there's very little reason to go back and collect individual back issues. That means stores get stuck with any excess comics they bought unless they dump them for a loss. 95% of the back issues in a store are not worth collecting, yet the stores have hard cash tied up in them. If the back issues were actually collectible and increasing in value, that would give the stores a healthy cash flow and allow them to be more aggressive at ordering new comics and giving new titles a chance. If new comics were selling more, the publisher would not need to keep increasing prices. The increasing prices and the worthlessness of most back issues is not allowing consumers to take any pride in what they own. It's just a matter of time before people look at how much space their comics take up and how irrelevant most of it is.
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Collector neyko private msg quote post Address this user
@X51 Add to that oncoming demand for digital comics and your prediction comes that much faster.....
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Collector X51 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by neyko
@X51 Add to that oncoming demand for digital comics and your prediction comes that much faster.....

I think newer generations will have less of an emotional connection to printed material.
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Collector neyko private msg quote post Address this user
@DocBrown With information getting out sooner or later about anything of this nature, it would be great if Marvel and DC would go back to keeping the same teams of artists, colorists, writers, letterers on the same book for at least a 6 issue run and longer. It would also be great to see fewer books and better story writing that doesn't depend on regurgitating the same stories decade after decade.

I don't know, but I think Defenders #5 will be my last Marvel comic for awhile. Image has some good stories, but what is surprising me is the quality I am finding from Titan, Boom, Dark Horse - remember Icon and Kick-Ass? That book holds up so well.

I also remember a guy telling me the same thing about Marvel in the 80's.

So, does it matter? Are the younger guys on this board into MArvel enjoying the stories? Do they seem fresh and new? Then it doesn't matter. But if people are generally board with biannual mega crossover stories that never become canon, people may start digging in the back of the LCS at the true indie books (Are Iamge and Vetigo are subsids of DC and Marvel?)
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Collector neyko private msg quote post Address this user
@Instant_Subtitles I am not sure Disney sees publishing as a separate entity from film and tv with Dan Buckley's promotion and job description. See below. The books - see Defenders - are now looking as though promotion vehicles for tv and movies much as a few issues of Spider-Man were for toys in the 70's and Secret Wars was for toys in the 80's. Look at the current Guardians of The Galaxy. A vehicle for the movies. MAybe this will turn out to be a good thing, maybe not.


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Under Buckley's leadership, Marvel began successful annual publishing events that brought entire lines of books together, such as Civil War and Secret Wars, launched a series of reboots and rebrands and brought more ethnic and gender diversity to the company's hero lineup. He also made big strides online, launching, for example, the Marvel Unlimited digital subscription service, and partnered with Scholastic to get Marvel's books outside comic book stores.

Buckley brought in producer Jeph Loeb to make a concerted push into television, with the two creating more than 100 hours of live-action programming with shows such as Agents of SHIELD and Marvel's Netflix shows such as Daredevil, Jessica Jones and Luke Cage, and over 150 hours of animated programming featuring Spider-Man, Guardians of the Galaxy and The Avengers, among others.

The promotion is seen partly as a doubling down of the company into the creation of content that is non-film related. It also is seen as a reward for an executive who has been praised for a management style that blends mediums and an intimate geek knowledge of Marvel comics.


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In his new role, Buckley will now oversee all divisions of Marvel Entertainment including publishing, television, digital, games, and global brand management. He will continue to work with Marvel and Disney to ensure continued growth of the Marvel brand.
Buckley then returned to Marvel as Publisher and was charged with sustaining and growing all areas of Marvel publishing and reaching out to both new and lapsed readership.

“Under Buckley’s leadership, Marvel Comics has remained at the forefront of innovation remains the industry leader in graphic fiction,” the company said.

Film Reporter
Dave McNary
Film Reporter
@Variety_DMcNary





Dan BuckleyCOURTESY OF DAN BUCKLEY MARVEL
JANUARY 18, 2017 | 03:01PM PT
Disney-owned Marvel Entertainment has promoted longtime executive Dan Buckley to the newly created post of president in a reflection of his expanded responsibilities.

He previously had served as President of TV, Publishing and Brand, during which he has directly overseen the expansion of the Publishing, Animation, Television and the Brand & Franchise groups. Buckley’s oversight does not include the Marvel Studios movie production division, which been guided by Kevin Feige as president.

In his new role, Buckley will now oversee all divisions of Marvel Entertainment including publishing, television, digital, games, and global brand management. He will continue to work with Marvel and Disney to ensure continued growth of the Marvel brand.


Buckley has worked with Jeph Loeb to create more than 100 hours of live-action programming including “Marvel’s Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.” on ABC, as well as Netflix’s “Marvel’s Daredevil,”,“Marvel’s Jessica Jones,” “Marvel’s Luke Cage,” “Marvel’s Iron Fist” and “Marvel’s Defenders”; as well as DXD’s “Marvel’s Avengers Assemble,” “Marvel’s Guardians of the Galaxy,”and “Marvel’s Spider-Man.”
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Collector XxSpideyxX private msg quote post Address this user
Print is dying a slow death in general. Throw in gimicky #1 and variant cover tricks, rotating (non-consistent) talent, desperate plot/character development, and the lack of a clear unifying thread (a la Stan Lee) and we have a recipe for slowing sales. But forcing shops to place minimum orders and refuse returns creates an artificially inflated market. It's a bubble that will burst again as it did in the 90s.
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Collector X51 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by XxSpideyxX
Print is dying a slow death in general. Throw in gimicky #1 and variant cover tricks, rotating (non-consistent) talent, desperate plot/character development, and the lack of a clear unifying thread (a la Stan Lee) and we have a recipe for slowing sales. But forcing shops to place minimum orders and refuse returns creates an artificially inflated market. It's a bubble that will burst again as it did in the 90s.


I REALLY believe that the minimum orders are a necessity for Diamond (their distributor) to remain profitable. Sales are so low now, that Diamond has downsized about as much as it can. If Diamond goes under, the whole direct market as we know it is gone for everyone.
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Collector 1243782365 private msg quote post Address this user
hm
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Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by X51
Quote:
Originally Posted by XxSpideyxX
Print is dying a slow death in general. Throw in gimicky #1 and variant cover tricks, rotating (non-consistent) talent, desperate plot/character development, and the lack of a clear unifying thread (a la Stan Lee) and we have a recipe for slowing sales. But forcing shops to place minimum orders and refuse returns creates an artificially inflated market. It's a bubble that will burst again as it did in the 90s.


I REALLY believe that the minimum orders are a necessity for Diamond (their distributor) to remain profitable. Sales are so low now, that Diamond has downsized about as much as it can. If Diamond goes under, the whole direct market as we know it is gone for everyone.


Diamond can't go under, at least under the current configuration.

Marvel and DC are propped up by Disney and Warners, and they will make sure distribution continues.

The distribution wars of the mid 90's are a distant memory. Diamond won. The Multi-Cons won't let them go under.
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Collector Lonestar private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by XxSpideyxX
Print is dying a slow death in general.


Depends on what you are talking about. I have no real information as it regards to comics, except anecdotally.

As to books, e-book sales have declined nearly 20% this past year, while sales of print books are up. E-books have declined since it hit their peak back in 2011. Now it might not be as simple as that because many e-books are available for free.

I have a Kindle, but actually haven't used it in years. I just didn't like reading books on it. It was great when I was traveling and could download several books as opposed to carrying those same with me in a backpack.

The print media that really is dying (or maybe already dead) is newspapers.
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Collector X51 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocBrown
Quote:
Originally Posted by X51
Quote:
Originally Posted by XxSpideyxX
Print is dying a slow death in general. Throw in gimicky #1 and variant cover tricks, rotating (non-consistent) talent, desperate plot/character development, and the lack of a clear unifying thread (a la Stan Lee) and we have a recipe for slowing sales. But forcing shops to place minimum orders and refuse returns creates an artificially inflated market. It's a bubble that will burst again as it did in the 90s.


I REALLY believe that the minimum orders are a necessity for Diamond (their distributor) to remain profitable. Sales are so low now, that Diamond has downsized about as much as it can. If Diamond goes under, the whole direct market as we know it is gone for everyone.


Diamond can't go under, at least under the current configuration.

Marvel and DC are propped up by Disney and Warners, and they will make sure distribution continues.

The distribution wars of the mid 90's are a distant memory. Diamond won. The Multi-Cons won't let them go under.


My belief is that Diamond lost by eliminating the competition. They became complacent and dictated their rules to everyone. Anyone who didn't like them had nowhere to turn. The downward spiral has continued until this day. Retailers who had left Diamond and were ordering from Capital City simply closed shop. A small publisher told me that when Capital City shut down, they expected Diamond orders to increase. They didn't. They simply lost all the orders from Capital City and sold less comics.

One of the problems with comics today is that neither the publisher, the distributor, nor the retailer feels it is their job to market the product. The publisher relies on the distributor. The distributor relies on the retail outlets, and the retail outlets are looking for help from the publishers. Movies are the only marketing that extends outside of the comic shop walls to bring in new customers. Everything is point of sales marketing AFTER you've already walked into the store.

Marvel couldn't run a distribution warehouse. They tried and gave up after buying Heroes World. I believe that both Disney and Warner Bros. are propping up Diamond by increasing prices on the product. Even though it makes it harder to win and keep new customers with the higher prices, I feel that Diamond needs the increase in dollars (by %) per unit to cover their expenses. They purged a lot of their indy accounts due to the low volume and the expenses it cost to process their product. They've shut down any non-critical distribution hubs to consolidate their overhead expenses. There's only so far they can cut back.

The industry would be better off if Diamond had a competitor. You'd have two distributors ordering safety stock (which is desperately needed by the publishers to increase production) and two distributors actually trying to get new customers.
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Collector OrbitCityComics private msg quote post Address this user
The article is pretty much right on the money.

Some of the best runs in comics were long term runs. Ultimate Spider-Man, Gaiman's run on Sandman, Lee and Loeb on Batman... Etc.
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