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A new coat of paint - Restoration4309

Collector NilesPaine private msg quote post Address this user
Hey there forum fanatics. I'm just curious what your experience has been with restoring your comics. Just looking for some before and after pictures of books you superheroes have actually gotten restored or even a given grade and and after grade and how much better they turned out!

Feel free to give your thoughts on restoration also, whether you prefer to keep a book as is all holy and pure even in horrible condition or you think it can be worth it.
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Collector Deadpoolica private msg quote post Address this user
Imo restoring is just killin the value, even if u never plan on selling why bother with it. Enjoy the flaws 🍻
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Collector NilesPaine private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadpoolica
Imo restoring is just killin the value, even if u never plan on selling why bother with it. Enjoy the flaws 🍻


Kind of how I feel. But I'm curious what peoples thoughts are. You think restoration can actually hurt value?? I'm still pretty new to this slabbing and grading thing.
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Collector VaComicsGuy private msg quote post Address this user
I don't want any restored books in my collection-
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Collector NilesPaine private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by VaComicsGuy
I don't want any restored books in my collection-

Any particular reason?? Feel like it's a slight to the entire idea of collecting??
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Collector Deadpoolica private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by NilesPaine
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadpoolica
Imo restoring is just killin the value, even if u never plan on selling why bother with it. Enjoy the flaws 🍻


Kind of how I feel. But I'm curious what peoples thoughts are. You think restoration can actually hurt value?? I'm still pretty new to this slabbing and grading thing.

Yes, it does hurt it...pretty significantly in most cases. With the exception of mega keys(still hurts but not as much) resto will reduce the value anywhere from 25-50%
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Collector NilesPaine private msg quote post Address this user
@Deadpoolica
oh wow! that's a pretty big hit! I wasn't aware. Thanks for the info.
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Collector VaComicsGuy private msg quote post Address this user
Just my preference. I'd rather have it with whatever issues it has. To me, it's like patina on antiques. It's part of the history of the book. I figure there are plenty of books out there. If a particular book has too much damage for my liking, I'll move on to the next one.
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Collector Deadpoolica private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by NilesPaine
@Deadpoolica
oh wow! that's a pretty big hit! I wasn't aware. Thanks for the info.

No problem dude...like I said, there's exceptions to it with bigger keys & golden age books don't get as big a hit either
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Collector CaptainCanuck private msg quote post Address this user
It could be said that a restored comic book is no longer the historical artifact that made it desirable in the first place. Restored comics are a cyborg of such, a vintage piece of printed art combined with the contemporary restorer's impression of how the book should look.
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Collector doog private msg quote post Address this user
Never restored one. I will press out the spine rolls however. I hate spine rolls
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Collector NilesPaine private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by doog
Never restored one. I will press out the spine rolls however. I hate spine rolls


The Bane. That and liquid stains. Even if its only cover damage, it just hurts my heart.
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Collector poka private msg quote post Address this user
@NilesPaine restoration is a no for me. However - conversation might be if it a key book which I wish to avoid further degrading.
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Collector NilesPaine private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by poka
@NilesPaine restoration is a no for me. However - conversation might be if it a key book which I wish to avoid further degrading.


Now in that case, do you think it would just be best to slab it as soon as possible and preserve it??? Or let it breathe?? My comics are pretty well stored but there's always the what if . . .
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Collector VaComicsGuy private msg quote post Address this user
Writing on covers drives me crazy, even though I did a ton of it as a kid.
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Collector georgefoo private msg quote post Address this user
Restored comics now have a major stigma attached to them. Perhaps unfairly. Witness the recent sale of a 9.4 unrestored All Star Comics #8 which sold for a whopping $936,233. Today, in Comic Link, a restored 9.6 copy of All Star Comics #8 had a high bid of $50,000. Almost 1/20 what the unrestored 9.4 sold for.

Does this make sense?? Don't know but ..... from a financial consideration, it makes no sense to purchase a restored copy unless at a very low price.
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Collector Vexsus private msg quote post Address this user
I can understand not wanting pieces added or color touches, but I feel like hating things that preserve the integrity of a comic, such as reinforcing the spine and perhaps frowned on too harshly. Shouldn't it be better to ensure a fragile comic stays whole rather then risk its continuing to degrade? I wonder if in the future as these ever ageing paper products continue to break down if this point of view will change.
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Collector Gaard private msg quote post Address this user
I don't really understand why restoration is so frowned upon. I get that people would rather have 'all original', but a restored comic is still a comic. Just because my FF25 has a dab of color touch doesn't mean it isn't an FF25.

Personally, if restoration wasn't so expensive, I wouldn't have a problem with making some of my books look better. I don't collect for value, I collect for the art (mainly).

If the market didn't frown upon restoration like it does and not affect the values so much, I wonder if people would be so against it.
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Collector NilesPaine private msg quote post Address this user
So what's the average price for restoration??? Though I'm sure that's arbitrary as every book is different but ball park?? See the thing is, I can understand not adding pages as I've seen whole pages reappear somehow in pictures I've seen, but in terms of some brightness and reinforcement if the spine is hanging by a thread of a paper seems fair.
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Collector georgefoo private msg quote post Address this user
I agree with NilesPaine. The stigma attached to restored books tends to be highly negative and not directly proportional to the degree of restoration. Perhaps there is a business opportunity for CBCS to also grade the level of restoration??
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Collector IronMan private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by NilesPaine
So what's the average price for restoration??? Though I'm sure that's arbitrary as every book is different but ball park?? See the thing is, I can understand not adding pages as I've seen whole pages reappear somehow in pictures I've seen, but in terms of some brightness and reinforcement if the spine is hanging by a thread of a paper seems fair.


I'd suggest you visit a couple of the sites that professional restorers have. All of them have some method to get an estimate. It should be noted that restoration is expensive, with most professionals suggesting the book needs to be worth at least $1000 in it's "before" state to be worthwhile. It should also be noted that older books (like early Silver Age - 1963 and before) have less of a stigma to them restored than do newer books.

In general, figure about $75-$100 an hour and it doesn't take much all that work to end up spending $1000 on a book. Wait times can be considerable as well - think a few months to half a year.

I've used both CCS and Hero Restoration. Then there is also The Restoration Lab and Eclipse Paper conservation.

There is no denying that restored books will be worth a less than unrestored. But it also depends on the final grade. Amazing Fantasy 15 in 7.5 is over $100,00. A restored 7.5 sold for $10,000. That is 10%. But a 2.0 of the same book with a bit of color touch or glue sells for 50-70% of a what an unrestored copy goes for.

Ultimately, major keys are going up in value - restored or unrestored. There will always be a lot less demand for restored books and they will sell for less money as a result. But with prices of the big keys in high grade now out of reach of the vast majority of collectors, the choices left for most collectors are low grade, restored or do without
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Collector NilesPaine private msg quote post Address this user
@IronMan
Real insightful thanks for the info. That's the interesting thing is that the big keys are now only for the rich and investors it seems. I wonder if some of the guys buying up the big books even read comics??
No matter though. That's why I collect up all the old True Believers books and Reprints. I can get a taste of those coveted books and it may be the only way the younger generation below us can get their hands on them.
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Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
There's nothing inherently wrong with restoration, so long as it is disclosed (and most of it is pretty obvious when pointed out.)

Restoration is suitable for many books; yes, some call certain aspects "conservation", which is fine. It depends on the book. However, halting or even reversing the destruction process that happens with all paper as it ages is frequently a good thing, especially for rare examples from the 30's and 40's.

As in all things, "one size doesn't fit all", and how restoration affects a book should be dependent on the type of restoration, the scope of restoration, the quality of restoration, and the degree of restoration. An AF #15 that is trimmed on all three sides, with pieces added, spine reinforced, and multiple tears sealed should be worth substantially less than a book with a couple dots of color touch on the spine.

This is where education helps, and lack of it hurts. A frankenbook...like that Showcase #4 9.8, which is essentially a completely new creation, with tiny sections or original material...should not be worth much more than what those original remnants would be.
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Collector NilesPaine private msg quote post Address this user



Whats up @DocBrown ! Ye well that's a further problem I assume then because do you actually get restoration notes or is it just notated that it WAS in fact restored when sent for grading?? Or is it similar to graders notes and they just tell u?? Or is it your responsibility to disclose to the grading company how it was restored?! So many questions and it seems like a grey area!
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Collector doog private msg quote post Address this user
I have owned some crumbly, falling apart cool books. My idea to save them is to slab them, they will never get worse, just ignore the shards of paper in the slab.
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Collector poka private msg quote post Address this user
@NilesPaine personally would depend on the comic and what it is for.

I might conserve it if having sentimental value or something worth saving
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Collector Philflound private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by doog
I have owned some crumbly, falling apart cool books. My idea to save them is to slab them, they will never get worse, just ignore the shards of paper in the slab.


That is not true. The book will continue to deteriorate regardless of whether it's in the slab or not.

Restoring a book will most likely drop the value, so unless you get a professional and want a very nice looking copy, most will suggest don't do it.

Removing the resto if only in small areas (opening tear seals, removing glue, scraping minor color touch) will usually drop the grade slightly but increase the value.

My suggestion is that if you can conserve the book so it doesn't further degrade, or degrades at a much slower pace (decades over a few years) then maybe go that route.
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Collector NilesPaine private msg quote post Address this user
Won't slabbing slow the degrading process down dramatically though?? And considering the new inner wells from both companies "never needing to be changed" wouldn't you think they'd preserve minimum for 15-20 years?? I don't really know??
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Collector comic_book_man private msg quote post Address this user
@NilesPaine

First off, happy birthday!

Secondly, my experience has always proven that the restored market is it's own animal and comparing unrestored to restored values/place/grades/etc is apples to oranges...

There are very few situations where I would buy an unrestored book to have it restored, but there are many situations in which getting an already restored book to improve upon the restoration further is applicable.

I feel there is a place for restored books, and a market but you must tread lightly.
There are really only 2 channels: buying a cheap-cost ultra-low-grade key-issue high-demand book with intent to restore OR buying a cheap-cost low-grade already-restored key-issue high-demand book with intent to restore further.

Those two paths are the only way I've ever made it out of the restored tunnel with any sort of "value" to show for the books I owned. I suppose there is 1 more (non-value) channel...in which you buy a restored book to hang it on your wall because it looks pretty - as the goal of restoration is to make it look more fresh and not everyone can afford even a low-grade copy of many unrestored key books.

A restored book is a cheap way to get a nice looking copy of a book you want, minus the "financial potential" in the majority of situations.
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Collector Krazywan private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by georgefoo
I agree with NilesPaine. The stigma attached to restored books tends to be highly negative and not directly proportional to the degree of restoration. Perhaps there is a business opportunity for CBCS to also grade the level of restoration??
cbcs already notes the restorations on the book minor, moderate, extensive
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