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Collector matterus023 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveRicketts
CBCS is committed to accurate grading, reliable certification, and preservation of the comic books that we love so much.

When we first opened the doors at CBCS, we discovered that there was an issue with our plastics, and that books could potentially have been damaged. We immediately stopped production and encapsulation in order to minimize any negative effect to comics that were entrusted into our care until the problem was rectified. We did not resume production until we discovered the source and were able to completely replenish our supply of materials. All the while keeping our customers informed of the status updates as they unfolded.

We at CBCS are dedicated to transparency towards our customers through impartiality and ultimately dedicated to the preservation of our wonderful hobby.



When CBCS first opened we had a problem with our inner well. Unbeknownst to us, the plastics company used recycled PETG for the inner well. They did not use recycled during any of our testing prior to us opening. PETG comes in huge rolls and when it is molded and cut, there is a lot of waste. For conservation purposes, this wasted plastic is melted down and reformed. A plastic can go through hundreds of cycles before it is actually used in the final product. This can degrade the integrity of the plastic. In most cases, it won’t matter. In our case, it was a big deal. The plastic tore very easily. This could have damaged comics. Rather than take that chance, we stopped encasing comics to investigate. We gave up to 30% discounts to people who sent in comics with the understanding that it would take longer for them to be returned as we investigate and solve the problem. It fortunately turned out to be a simple solution—use virgin PETG. It is no more expensive than recycled. Cost was not the issue. The plastics company was just trying to be environmentally conscious. We did not keep sending out cases that could potentially damage comics. We did not take the chance that an inferior product would continue. We did not hide anything from our customers. We simply stopped production until the problem could be fixed. It could have been the end of our company if the problem turned out to be bigger than that. There wasn’t even discussion about what was right. We would rather close than potentially hurt comics. I wish this were the case with all grading companies.


Slow clap. CGC take note
Post 51 • IP   flag post
Collector Stelbert_Stylton private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrWatson



My new motto.
Post 52 • IP   flag post
Collector DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stelbert_Stylton
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrWatson



My new motto.

No, you give plenty hell.
Post 53 • IP   flag post
Collector MR_SigS private msg quote post Address this user
zing
Post 54 • IP   flag post
Collector Stelbert_Stylton private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrWatson
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stelbert_Stylton
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrWatson



My new motto.

No, you give plenty hell.


Plenty truth, too.

Is it weird that the last 4 letters of my last name are Hell?
Post 55 • IP   flag post


Collector DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stelbert_Stylton
Is it weird that the last 4 letters of my last name are Hell?

More like a portent.
Post 56 • IP   flag post
Collector Happylemon private msg quote post Address this user
Nice to see the reasons and morals behind the company, tip my hat to you
Post 57 • IP   flag post
Collector Sqeggs private msg quote post Address this user
Mike,

It's great to see you make this public statement. There is a lot of useful information in your post.

Here's the thing, though: There's a widespread belief that CBCS consistently grades higher than CGC. A book that receives, say, a CBCS 6.0 will receive a CGC 5.0. A CBCS 9.6 might be a CGC 9.2.

To my mind, the gap between your grading and CGC's grading is the biggest obstacle to the growth of your company. Hardly anybody wants to deal in high-dollar CBCS books because they sell at a fluctuating discount to CGC books with the same grade. Not being able to get a fix on FMV of CBCS books makes me reluctant to buy them or sell them. For lower-dollar books, it doesn't make much difference. But for high-dollar books, it's a killer.

CGC is going through a major crisis because not only do their new slabs have presentation issues with Newton rings, but there is increasing evidence that they are actually damaging the books.

You have a heaven sent opportunity to expand your business.

But to do so I think you need to forthrightly address the grading issue.
Post 58 • IP   flag post
Collector RRO private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sqeggs
Mike,

It's great to see you make this public statement. There is a lot of useful information in your post.

Here's the thing, though: There's a widespread belief that CBCS consistently grades higher than CGC. A book that receives, say, a CBCS 6.0 will receive a CGC 5.0. A CBCS 9.6 might be a CGC 9.2.

To my mind, the gap between your grading and CGC's grading is the biggest obstacle to the growth of your company. Hardly anybody wants to deal in high-dollar CBCS books because they sell at a fluctuating discount to CGC books with the same grade. Not being able to get a fix on FMV of CBCS books makes me reluctant to buy them or sell them. For lower-dollar books, it doesn't make much difference. But for high-dollar books, it's a killer.

CGC is going through a major crisis because not only do their new slabs have presentation issues with Newton rings, but there is increasing evidence that they are actually damaging the books.

You have a heaven sent opportunity to expand your business.

But to do so I think you need to forthrightly address the grading issue.
Widespread belief indeed. Is this a consensus or a fact-driven statement? I ask because I have been having great success in selling CBCS, some key, more semi-key at or above CGC comparisons. I do agree with you in that a notable amount of CBCS items appear to be more "tighter" than if submitted to CGC. I believe that this is more due to consistency and not the favorable treatment CGC has given so many desirable books in recent years. Consistency, honesty and scrupulous mores make CBCS a better choice
Post 59 • IP   flag post
Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by PovRow
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stelbert_Stylton
Quote:
Originally Posted by MusterMark
People, let's not allow this thread to degenerate into a pressing thread, of all things.
That would be one of the worst things we could do to this thread.
If some one wants to talk about pressing, make another thread please.


Yeah, let's get back to bashing CGC!


MusterMark beat me to it. People use the topic of pressing to derail a thread they don't want others to talk about.


They do? How does one determine what motivates another person's posts unless that person reveals that motivation?

It would seem that people just post about what they're interested in. How does anyone control (besides mods/admin) what others can talk about, anyway?
Post 60 • IP   flag post
Collector Stelbert_Stylton private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by RRO
I do agree with you in that a notable amount of CBCS items appear to be more "tighter" than if submitted to CGC. I believe that this is more due to consistency and not the favorable treatment CGC has given so many desirable books in recent years.


So did this favorable treatment begin only after Borock left CGC? If so, how can you tell?
Post 61 • IP   flag post
Collector RRO private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stelbert_Stylton
Quote:
Originally Posted by RRO
I do agree with you in that a notable amount of CBCS items appear to be more "tighter" than if submitted to CGC. I believe that this is more due to consistency and not the favorable treatment CGC has given so many desirable books in recent years.


So did this favorable treatment begin only after Borock left CGC? If so, how can you tell?
What I state is based on personal experience of myself submitting to CGC and that of others who consulted with me about their own suspicions. This certainly started to be apparent while Steve B was firmly entrenched in Heritage Auctions, and when i say entrenched I really mean it, you have no idea just how hard he worked there for Heritage customers. The actual grading that took place on books I had pass through my hands and those of others I was privy to was purely to over graded them. This is an observation of several long time, experienced collectors/dealers giving a consensus grade and seeing up to a 2.5 jump on key issues only. The most glaring of them was a major key raw at 4.5 being returned as 6.5, the book actually looked worse after being slabbed! Then following these incidents hearing of others like this at various conventions, being shown some too that just affirmed that we had come to know. There are theories as to why CGC did this, some of them sound very plausible, but it is not my place to try to foment any here.
Post 62 • IP   flag post
Collector PovRow private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocBrown
Quote:
Originally Posted by PovRow
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stelbert_Stylton
Quote:
Originally Posted by MusterMark
People, let's not allow this thread to degenerate into a pressing thread, of all things.
That would be one of the worst things we could do to this thread.
If some one wants to talk about pressing, make another thread please.


Yeah, let's get back to bashing CGC!


MusterMark beat me to it. People use the topic of pressing to derail a thread they don't want others to talk about.


They do? How does one determine what motivates another person's posts unless that person reveals that motivation?

It would seem that people just post about what they're interested in. How does anyone control (besides mods/admin) what others can talk about, anyway?


One method to determine a motivation is to simply read the forums and see the pattern. If you do you will notice there are three topics used most often to derail threads: sports, alcohol(beer or scotch being the most popular) and pressing. The posts come totally out of left field and a few posters make up the majority of the off-topic responses. After the thread gets back on track suddenly one of those off-topic posters will go back, quote a previous pressing or beer or baseball post and it starts again. It is not difficult to discern what is happening.

How does one control it? Just delete or move off-topic posts (depending on the content). Both forums already have places to talk about beer, baseball and pressing. Start deleting offensive posts or moving off-topic posts early on in the life of a forum. The precedent is then established.

People here are free to create topics. So if they want to go off topic to a current thread, just create a new topic and post there.
Post 63 • IP   flag post
Collector RRO private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by PovRow
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocBrown
Quote:
Originally Posted by PovRow
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stelbert_Stylton
Quote:
Originally Posted by MusterMark
People, let's not allow this thread to degenerate into a pressing thread, of all things.
That would be one of the worst things we could do to this thread.
If some one wants to talk about pressing, make another thread please.


Yeah, let's get back to bashing CGC!


MusterMark beat me to it. People use the topic of pressing to derail a thread they don't want others to talk about.


They do? How does one determine what motivates another person's posts unless that person reveals that motivation?

It would seem that people just post about what they're interested in. How does anyone control (besides mods/admin) what others can talk about, anyway?


One method to determine a motivation is to simply read the forums and see the pattern. If you do you will notice there are three topics used most often to derail threads: sports, alcohol(beer or scotch being the most popular) and pressing. The posts come totally out of left field and a few posters make up the majority of the off-topic responses. After the thread gets back on track suddenly one of those off-topic posters will go back, quote a previous pressing or beer or baseball post and it starts again. It is not difficult to discern what is happening.

How does one control it? Just delete or move off-topic posts (depending on the content). Both forums already have places to talk about beer, baseball and pressing. Start deleting offensive posts or moving off-topic posts early on in the life of a forum. The precedent is then established.

People here are free to create topics. So if they want to go off topic to a current thread, just create a new topic and post there.
Very interesting, and good to know. Thank you for you insights.
Post 64 • IP   flag post
Collector PovRow private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by RRO
Quote:
Originally Posted by PovRow
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocBrown
Quote:
Originally Posted by PovRow
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stelbert_Stylton
Quote:
Originally Posted by MusterMark
People, let's not allow this thread to degenerate into a pressing thread, of all things.
That would be one of the worst things we could do to this thread.
If some one wants to talk about pressing, make another thread please.


Yeah, let's get back to bashing CGC!


MusterMark beat me to it. People use the topic of pressing to derail a thread they don't want others to talk about.


They do? How does one determine what motivates another person's posts unless that person reveals that motivation?

It would seem that people just post about what they're interested in. How does anyone control (besides mods/admin) what others can talk about, anyway?


One method to determine a motivation is to simply read the forums and see the pattern. If you do you will notice there are three topics used most often to derail threads: sports, alcohol(beer or scotch being the most popular) and pressing. The posts come totally out of left field and a few posters make up the majority of the off-topic responses. After the thread gets back on track suddenly one of those off-topic posters will go back, quote a previous pressing or beer or baseball post and it starts again. It is not difficult to discern what is happening.

How does one control it? Just delete or move off-topic posts (depending on the content). Both forums already have places to talk about beer, baseball and pressing. Start deleting offensive posts or moving off-topic posts early on in the life of a forum. The precedent is then established.

People here are free to create topics. So if they want to go off topic to a current thread, just create a new topic and post there.
Very interesting, and good to know. Thank you for you insights.


You are welcome. Just to clarify, Doc Brown left off the 2nd part of my post, which said that this derailing was common on the CGC Boards. Having seen it time and time again over there, I wanted to at least bring it up here on the CBCS boards.
Post 65 • IP   flag post
Collector jsilverjanet private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsilverjanet
Can you post the video the of ink attaching to the Mylar?


Bump
Post 66 • IP   flag post
CBCS Pressing SteveRicketts private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsilverjanet
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsilverjanet
Can you post the video the of ink attaching to the Mylar?


Bump



Post 67 • IP   flag post
CBCS Pressing SteveRicketts private msg quote post Address this user
The book is laying on the mylar sheet.
The color rub is on the mylar.
Post 68 • IP   flag post
Collector Marc_1 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sqeggs
Mike,

It's great to see you make this public statement. There is a lot of useful information in your post.

Here's the thing, though: There's a widespread belief that CBCS consistently grades higher than CGC. A book that receives, say, a CBCS 6.0 will receive a CGC 5.0. A CBCS 9.6 might be a CGC 9.2.

To my mind, the gap between your grading and CGC's grading is the biggest obstacle to the growth of your company. Hardly anybody wants to deal in high-dollar CBCS books because they sell at a fluctuating discount to CGC books with the same grade. Not being able to get a fix on FMV of CBCS books makes me reluctant to buy them or sell them. For lower-dollar books, it doesn't make much difference. But for high-dollar books, it's a killer.

CGC is going through a major crisis because not only do their new slabs have presentation issues with Newton rings, but there is increasing evidence that they are actually damaging the books.

You have a heaven sent opportunity to expand your business.

But to do so I think you need to forthrightly address the grading issue.


I'd like to see examples that you are witnessing where CBCS is overgrading SA or GA books.

I know I have seen inconsistencies from both companies.

A couple of examples where I think CBCS was spot on with CGC.

Pedigree comics submitted a CGC Tales to Astonish 35 9.2. It came back graded a CBCS 9.2. Exact same grade,

The same thing happened with another book from that same collection from Pedigree comics. An Avengers 3 I believe. Same grade.

Where I believe CBCS is more lenient is on REMAINDERED books where the top 1/3 of the cover is off. They are higher than CGC on that.

Also, I recently saw a CGC .5 of a GA TEC that was split down the spine on all pages and cover and not held together....and it got a 1.8. That was shocking to me...I have to say.

But, I recall seeing books from CGC that have been graded 8.0 and they look like a 4.0.

Or a 9.8 that has multiple spine ticks.

Honestly, it's consistency for the most part. But both companies have their challenges on some examples i've seen. But with the majority of books i've seen from both companies they get the job done right.

I would like to know about CBCS stance on where they differ on CGC standards for items such as:

- CGC books that were .5s or NG that are now 1.5 or 1.8s...why or how does that happen?

- heavy extensive resto (like the recent Hulk 1 and SC4 9.8s). Why grade it when CGC won't. Curious.

Those are my main questions i'd like to see answered.
Post 69 • IP   flag post
Collector VintageComics private msg quote post Address this user
I have a very focused view of the high grade SA and BA market. IMO, CBCS has been too loose on those high grade books from what I had seen.

It has definitely affected their market perception.

I have high end buyers (5-6 and 7 figure books) who won't buy CBCS books for that reason. If they have tightened up their grading, that is a good thing as it will help the entire market, not just CBCS as people in general want a standardized grading system.
Post 70 • IP   flag post
Collector Rip private msg quote post Address this user
Thanks for the photo SteveRicketts. That's horrible.
Post 71 • IP   flag post
Collector jsilverjanet private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveRicketts
The book is laying on the mylar sheet.
The color rub is on the mylar.


Since this is a pic and not video does the video show the book being removed etc

I guess a pic of the Mylar would have helped

Sorry for the follow up questions but an accusation like that for either company would have my follow ups

I just don't take anyone's word etc
Post 72 • IP   flag post
CBCS Pressing SteveRicketts private msg quote post Address this user
I understand. That was from a book that I personally cracked out of a new holder. I won't be back in the office until Tuesday, so I can't give you a full shot of the mylar until then.

I do have these pics from a few other books I cracked out. They show the mylar a little more clearly. They also have color transfer. They're the best images of the mylar that I have on my phone.





Post 73 • IP   flag post
Collector jsilverjanet private msg quote post Address this user
Do you mind if I post these images elsewhere?
Post 74 • IP   flag post
CBCS Pressing SteveRicketts private msg quote post Address this user
No issues at all.
Post 75 • IP   flag post
Collector jsilverjanet private msg quote post Address this user
Thanks
Post 76 • IP   flag post
CBCS Pressing SteveRicketts private msg quote post Address this user
BTW, its not a turtles book. That was just a liable that was on my desk that I put there for contrast and scale.
Post 77 • IP   flag post
Collector jsilverjanet private msg quote post Address this user
Ok. Cool
Post 78 • IP   flag post
Collector PovRow private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sqeggs
Mike,

Here's the thing, though: There's a widespread belief that CBCS consistently grades higher than CGC. A book that receives, say, a CBCS 6.0 will receive a CGC 5.0. A CBCS 9.6 might be a CGC 9.2.

To my mind, the gap between your grading and CGC's grading is the biggest obstacle to the growth of your company.


Has anyone documented this? Actually documented this with specific books and grades? And preferably photo supported? The closest I saw of real documentation was someone on the CGC boards listing four books that went from CBCS to CGC and came back lower from CGC. But these were submitted to CGC's Signature Series, which to my mind totally negates any chance at a fair comparison due to the potential for stress/damage during the whole sig process. Even now I am not sure if that post was actually a really clever joke.

I have asked for solid documentation several times now and aside from that one post all I have ever seen is anecdotal. Posts along the line of how experienced a dealer or collector is and how closely they looked at large quantities of CBCS books and can see the overgrading. But that is essentially the sum total of the "evidence". I have yet to see one actual comparison of books going from CGC to CBCS and CBCS to CGC. With all books remaining in their respective holders to avoid more potential damage from packaging etc.
Post 79 • IP   flag post
Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by PovRow
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocBrown
Quote:
Originally Posted by PovRow
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stelbert_Stylton
Quote:
Originally Posted by MusterMark
People, let's not allow this thread to degenerate into a pressing thread, of all things.
That would be one of the worst things we could do to this thread.
If some one wants to talk about pressing, make another thread please.


Yeah, let's get back to bashing CGC!


MusterMark beat me to it. People use the topic of pressing to derail a thread they don't want others to talk about.


They do? How does one determine what motivates another person's posts unless that person reveals that motivation?

It would seem that people just post about what they're interested in. How does anyone control (besides mods/admin) what others can talk about, anyway?


One method to determine a motivation is to simply read the forums and see the pattern. If you do you will notice there are three topics used most often to derail threads: sports, alcohol(beer or scotch being the most popular) and pressing. The posts come totally out of left field and a few posters make up the majority of the off-topic responses. After the thread gets back on track suddenly one of those off-topic posters will go back, quote a previous pressing or beer or baseball post and it starts again. It is not difficult to discern what is happening.

How does one control it? Just delete or move off-topic posts (depending on the content). Both forums already have places to talk about beer, baseball and pressing. Start deleting offensive posts or moving off-topic posts early on in the life of a forum. The precedent is then established.

People here are free to create topics. So if they want to go off topic to a current thread, just create a new topic and post there.


What if the pattern you claim to be seeing doesn't really exist?

Do you have any concrete examples, or are you just theorizing?

Human beings are organic creatures, and their conversation follows organics paths. Have you ever been part of a group in which one person constantly tried to steer the conversation to what he/she thought was "on topic"? I have. I gets old pretty fast.

Unless a topic is specifically designated to "stay on topic", then the only posts we ought to be concerned with are our own.

Deleting posts that someone else took the time to write is rude and off-putting. It says to a poster "I/we don't value your input." I'm absolutely sure that that isn't the case with CBCS.

If everyone focused on their own posts, and not how everyone else posts, everyone will get along just fine. "Start deleting offensive posts" and you will have the environment that exists at the CGC boards, which is not healthy in the slightest.

As far as leaving off the second part of your post: first, it wasn't relevant to my point, and second, it's right up there in your post for all to read, right...?
Post 80 • IP   flag post
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