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Collector MR_SigS private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Claudio
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stelbert_Stylton
Quote:
Originally Posted by Claudio
There have been many instances these past few years where greed has gotten hold of CGC.


There were many instances when Borock was president of CGC where greed got a hold of CGC too. I don't see this as anything different than some of the stuff that went on from 2000 - 2007.


Greed is good in order to grow your company. It's not good when it blinds you from doing the right thing and not owning up to your mistakes yet continue to offer a shoddy product.


What's bugging me is I'm reading posts from collectors receiving this fugly stuff, calling CGC about it saying they are hesitant to resub for fear that the problem isn't solved, and being told "yes, they're solved- please resubmit for a reholder". Yet no examples of "problem solved" have popped up.

That, plus no public response (only when YOU call THEM) just seems so stinky.
Post 26 • IP   flag post
Collector DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user
I hope the cgc do fix the problems with their holder, but I don't see how they can without a complete redesign and the return of some type of inner well.
Post 27 • IP   flag post
Collector Jeremy_K private msg quote post Address this user
i have 4 sketches i had to send thru cgc out now, this is scary stuff
Post 28 • IP   flag post
Collector Pre_Coder private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrWatson
I hope the cgc do fix the problems with their holder, but I don't see how they can without a complete redesign and the return of some type of inner well.


I think you are right about the problem fix.
Post 29 • IP   flag post
Collector Stelbert_Stylton private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy_K
stelbert_stylton i don't know what you are talking about; care to elaborate?


Here's a post by Chrisco37 that I saw the other day. It hits on a few of the points.

"(As for why some people hate pressing), I think a lot of the initial outrage was certainly a feeling of being duped. CGC offered a service to select clients and most of us had no idea. That all came to light when they were attempting to set up an in house service for the public (I forget what that was called, but someone found the application for the business online (Note: PCS)). Most people didn't know about pressing. Look back thru the OS ads and see when people started advertising pressing services as a way to specifically increase the grade ("Unlock the hidden potential" is the first one I remember, maybe 2004-05? I don't remember exactly).

Bob (Storms) has said multiple times over the years (and I'm paraphrasing) that if you want to know how the comic grading game plays out, look back at coins. Same stuff happened with "us" as did with coins. Grading service established, services set up to encourage the "CPR" game (continued revenue stream), etc. etc. CGC always has had a vested interest in that game.

For years, OS considered it restoration. Then, all of the sudden, it wasn't. I just went thru the OSGG (2nd Edition; I think people still consider this one the best, right?). Didn't find one mention of it in the articles (including articles by both Susan and Matt) or definitions. Interesting. A few pages back Roy asked why did OS remove it from resto definition? Call me a cynic, but go thru any OSPG from 2002 up. Who has as many or more ads than anyone else? Why would OS define something as "bad" that would directly, negatively affect one of their biggest advertisers?"

And here's a historical perspective on CGC and someof the problems back then.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Comics_Guaranty_LLC&diff=204866376&oldid=204718888#Criticism
Post 30 • IP   flag post


Collector Stelbert_Stylton private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by MR_SigS
That, plus no public response (only when YOU call THEM) just seems so stinky.


That's the way CGC has been for 16 years. They've never made any announcements regarding policies or controversies. Even major announcements like re-checking Ewert books weren't mentioned in Wizard, CBG, or even on their own website. Many new features and policies were discovered by Board members through trial and error or dumb luck. It's the status quo.
Post 31 • IP   flag post
Collector Jeremy_K private msg quote post Address this user
thanks for the history. I just started getting my collection graded. Pressing never seemed like restoration to me, I'm curious to know how it would be detected.
Post 32 • IP   flag post
Collector Stelbert_Stylton private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy_K
thanks for the history. I just started getting my collection graded. Pressing never seemed like restoration to me, I'm curious to know how it would be detected.


That's the Catch-22 - if pressing is done correctly you can't detect it. That's why it fit in so perfectly with their CPR plans.

IMO pressing is definitely restoration, just not as bad as other restoration. If you use a machine to make a comic look nicer, that's restoration.
Post 33 • IP   flag post
Collector Jeremy_K private msg quote post Address this user
Id like it to be said that one member of an organization is not at fault for every error made by that company (even if it's the president). It should also be said that mistakes may happen, It's the growth that occurs from those errors that makes the difference. The attention i have received from CBCS employees makes me think they give a sh@t and has made me a future customer.
Post 34 • IP   flag post
Collector MR_SigS private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stelbert_Stylton
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy_K
thanks for the history. I just started getting my collection graded. Pressing never seemed like restoration to me, I'm curious to know how it would be detected.


That's the Catch-22 - if pressing is done correctly you can't detect it. That's why it fit in so perfectly with their CPR plans.

IMO pressing is definitely restoration, just not as bad as other restoration. If you use a machine to make a comic look nicer, that's restoration.


I agree. Even though a book can receive a press of sorts naturally in the wild, a machine press should be considered restoration, and without a doubt SHOULD BE DISCLOSED BY THE PARTY PAYING FOR THE PRESS IF THE BOOK IS EVER SOLD, as well as all subsequent owners at the point of sales advertising.
Post 35 • IP   flag post
Collector VintageComics private msg quote post Address this user
Pressing will hever be fully disclosed.

I now just assume all books are pressed.
Post 36 • IP   flag post
Collector matterus023 private msg quote post Address this user
Wow. That original post was just all kinds of awesome. Very informative and useful information.

Putting all that to one side though it just shone through my screen as someone speaking honestly and who has a real passion for what they do. We are all well within our rights to have our own opinions on both CGC and CBCS but for me it would always come down to just who I feel is the more morally sound company. Honesty and transparency trumps all for me. Hopefully it will in the busines world to. CBCS just make more feel far more comfortable and welcome. I am relatively new to comics. Around 4 years. So perhaps many felt this way with CGC at the start or still do. But besides the fan boys and cheerleaders who on certain subject matters I think we can all agree speak utter rubbish I feel many are getting fed up of CGC and in a way their arrogance.

Keep up the good work CBCS. As long as you stay honest you are a win in my books
Post 37 • IP   flag post
Collector MR_SigS private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by VintageComics
Pressing will hever be fully disclosed.

I now just assume all books are pressed.


Heck no, of course it won't. Just saying it should be.
Post 38 • IP   flag post
Collector RRO private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stelbert_Stylton
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy_K
thanks for the history. I just started getting my collection graded. Pressing never seemed like restoration to me, I'm curious to know how it would be detected.


That's the Catch-22 - if pressing is done correctly you can't detect it. That's why it fit in so perfectly with their CPR plans.

IMO pressing is definitely restoration, just not as bad as other restoration. If you use a machine to make a comic look nicer, that's restoration.
I once pressed a number of comics between two sheet os linoleum with a very heavy cast-iron water pump. Does this meet your criterion for restoration?
Post 39 • IP   flag post
Collector Stelbert_Stylton private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by RRO
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stelbert_Stylton
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy_K
thanks for the history. I just started getting my collection graded. Pressing never seemed like restoration to me, I'm curious to know how it would be detected.


That's the Catch-22 - if pressing is done correctly you can't detect it. That's why it fit in so perfectly with their CPR plans.

IMO pressing is definitely restoration, just not as bad as other restoration. If you use a machine to make a comic look nicer, that's restoration.
I once pressed a number of comics between two sheet os linoleum with a very heavy cast-iron water pump. Does this meet your criterion for restoration?


You're 15 years late with that one It may be a simple definition but it satisfies the morons that always say "what if I flick a booger off the cover" or "what if I bend back a folded corner".
Post 40 • IP   flag post
Collector The_Curmudgeon private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by RRO
I once pressed a number of comics between two sheet os linoleum with a very heavy cast-iron water pump. Does this meet your criterion for restoration?


Yes!

I also press my own comics. But I don't use any heat or humidification.
All I use is a sandwich of Mylar sheets and about 170 lbs of steel plate.
It takes a long time to see results, but I don't put any moisture or heat to it.






Post 41 • IP   flag post
Collector Mr_adam_R private msg quote post Address this user
now those are some slabs of metal!!!
Post 42 • IP   flag post
Collector Pre_Coder private msg quote post Address this user
Sauza!
Post 43 • IP   flag post
Collector Jerkfro private msg quote post Address this user
Yikes! Pancake city
Post 44 • IP   flag post
Collector MusterMark private msg quote post Address this user
People, let's not allow this thread to degenerate into a pressing thread, of all things.
That would be one of the worst things we could do to this thread.
If some one wants to talk about pressing, make another thread please.
Post 45 • IP   flag post
Collector Stelbert_Stylton private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by MusterMark
People, let's not allow this thread to degenerate into a pressing thread, of all things.
That would be one of the worst things we could do to this thread.
If some one wants to talk about pressing, make another thread please.


Yeah, let's get back to bashing CGC!
Post 46 • IP   flag post
Collector PovRow private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stelbert_Stylton
Quote:
Originally Posted by MusterMark
People, let's not allow this thread to degenerate into a pressing thread, of all things.
That would be one of the worst things we could do to this thread.
If some one wants to talk about pressing, make another thread please.


Yeah, let's get back to bashing CGC!


MusterMark beat me to it. People use the topic of pressing to derail a thread they don't want others to talk about. It is a petty power play that happens often on the CGC boards.

I'd rather see Michael's original post discussed.
Post 47 • IP   flag post
CBCS Michael private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveRicketts
CBCS is committed to accurate grading, reliable certification, and preservation of the comic books that we love so much.

When we first opened the doors at CBCS, we discovered that there was an issue with our plastics, and that books could potentially have been damaged. We immediately stopped production and encapsulation in order to minimize any negative effect to comics that were entrusted into our care until the problem was rectified. We did not resume production until we discovered the source and were able to completely replenish our supply of materials. All the while keeping our customers informed of the status updates as they unfolded.

We at CBCS are dedicated to transparency towards our customers through impartiality and ultimately dedicated to the preservation of our wonderful hobby.



When CBCS first opened we had a problem with our inner well. Unbeknownst to us, the plastics company used recycled PETG for the inner well. They did not use recycled during any of our testing prior to us opening. PETG comes in huge rolls and when it is molded and cut, there is a lot of waste. For conservation purposes, this wasted plastic is melted down and reformed. A plastic can go through hundreds of cycles before it is actually used in the final product. This can degrade the integrity of the plastic. In most cases, it won’t matter. In our case, it was a big deal. The plastic tore very easily. This could have damaged comics. Rather than take that chance, we stopped encasing comics to investigate. We gave up to 30% discounts to people who sent in comics with the understanding that it would take longer for them to be returned as we investigate and solve the problem. It fortunately turned out to be a simple solution—use virgin PETG. It is no more expensive than recycled. Cost was not the issue. The plastics company was just trying to be environmentally conscious. We did not keep sending out cases that could potentially damage comics. We did not take the chance that an inferior product would continue. We did not hide anything from our customers. We simply stopped production until the problem could be fixed. It could have been the end of our company if the problem turned out to be bigger than that. There wasn’t even discussion about what was right. We would rather close than potentially hurt comics. I wish this were the case with all grading companies.
Post 48 • IP   flag post
Collector The_Curmudgeon private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael
There wasn’t even discussion about what was right. We would rather close than potentially hurt comics. I wish this were the case with all grading companies.

As it should be.

Thank you Michael, for this thread and the information contained herein.
I did months of research on the different grading companies before choosing the one with the best product and customer service...CBCS.
Post 49 • IP   flag post
Collector matterus023 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by MusterMark
People, let's not allow this thread to degenerate into a pressing thread, of all things.
That would be one of the worst things we could do to this thread.
If some one wants to talk about pressing, make another thread please.


I tried to get it back on track
Post 50 • IP   flag post
Collector matterus023 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveRicketts
CBCS is committed to accurate grading, reliable certification, and preservation of the comic books that we love so much.

When we first opened the doors at CBCS, we discovered that there was an issue with our plastics, and that books could potentially have been damaged. We immediately stopped production and encapsulation in order to minimize any negative effect to comics that were entrusted into our care until the problem was rectified. We did not resume production until we discovered the source and were able to completely replenish our supply of materials. All the while keeping our customers informed of the status updates as they unfolded.

We at CBCS are dedicated to transparency towards our customers through impartiality and ultimately dedicated to the preservation of our wonderful hobby.



When CBCS first opened we had a problem with our inner well. Unbeknownst to us, the plastics company used recycled PETG for the inner well. They did not use recycled during any of our testing prior to us opening. PETG comes in huge rolls and when it is molded and cut, there is a lot of waste. For conservation purposes, this wasted plastic is melted down and reformed. A plastic can go through hundreds of cycles before it is actually used in the final product. This can degrade the integrity of the plastic. In most cases, it won’t matter. In our case, it was a big deal. The plastic tore very easily. This could have damaged comics. Rather than take that chance, we stopped encasing comics to investigate. We gave up to 30% discounts to people who sent in comics with the understanding that it would take longer for them to be returned as we investigate and solve the problem. It fortunately turned out to be a simple solution—use virgin PETG. It is no more expensive than recycled. Cost was not the issue. The plastics company was just trying to be environmentally conscious. We did not keep sending out cases that could potentially damage comics. We did not take the chance that an inferior product would continue. We did not hide anything from our customers. We simply stopped production until the problem could be fixed. It could have been the end of our company if the problem turned out to be bigger than that. There wasn’t even discussion about what was right. We would rather close than potentially hurt comics. I wish this were the case with all grading companies.


Slow clap. CGC take note
Post 51 • IP   flag post
Collector Stelbert_Stylton private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrWatson



My new motto.
Post 52 • IP   flag post
Collector DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stelbert_Stylton
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrWatson



My new motto.

No, you give plenty hell.
Post 53 • IP   flag post
Collector MR_SigS private msg quote post Address this user
zing
Post 54 • IP   flag post
Collector Stelbert_Stylton private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrWatson
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stelbert_Stylton
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrWatson



My new motto.

No, you give plenty hell.


Plenty truth, too.

Is it weird that the last 4 letters of my last name are Hell?
Post 55 • IP   flag post
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