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Batman Adventures #12 Newstand Edition2466

COLLECTOR DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
A simple quick glance at the barcode should remedy that.
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COLLECTOR kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user

Post 27 IP   flag post
Collector TommyJasmin private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthLego
A simple quick glance at the barcode should remedy that.


Huh, I didn't realize you could differentiate any variant from the bar code alone... Who needs labels!
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COLLECTOR DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
You can differentiate Newsstand vs Direct by looking at the barcode. That is what the conversation was about, not variants.
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Collector TommyJasmin private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthLego
You can differentiate Newsstand vs Direct by looking at the barcode. That is what the conversation was about, not variants.


Not variants? So Newsstand vs. Direct is not a variant?
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COLLECTOR DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
Technically, no. They are not considered variants by the publishers. It is collectors who decided to seek them out as variants.
Post 31 IP   flag post
Collector TommyJasmin private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaptainmyke



Nah... Steve's a big boy, he can handle a little constructive criticism. Look guys I'm not trying to be a dick - these are valid points. Here - in support of shrewbeer's original inquiry, let me cite an example. CGC has started noting "Newsstand Edition" on graded issues of Playboy. Early slabbed copies noted nothing on the label, yet the newsstand version of #1 sells for well over $10,000.00 more.
There's no bar code, no way to know without a label.

If I were a collector of old Playboy, I'd much prefer their newer label, like so:



...where a quick glance tells me everything I need to know.
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COLLECTOR DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
Well in a situation where there's no visual way to make the distinction, it makes sense to note it on the label.
Post 33 IP   flag post
Collector TommyJasmin private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthLego
Technically, no. They are not considered variants by the publishers. It is collectors who decided to seek them out as variants.


And who drives the market? Do the publishers consider error printings variants? No, but collectors do, and again, the obvious thing is to just clearly note it on the label. I can't flip to the centerfold to see if the pages are swapped. If we want to devolve into arguing semantics and technicalities though, I'll concede the debate here
Post 34 IP   flag post
Collector TommyJasmin private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthLego
Well in a situation where there's no visual way to make the distinction, it makes sense to note it on the label.


Hooray DarthLego! Where's the fist-bump emoji??
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COLLECTOR DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
Well I can't get CBCS to decide to properly label a Batman #1 WB Studio Tour variant because someone at DC Comics is a bonehead and messed up the indicia. So I guess the decisions of the publishers do carry weight despite what the collector community thinks.
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Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveRicketts
The single most time consuming thing for the grading room to do is researching comics to make sure they have the right book and entering the key comments into the fields. It's a very tedious job.

CBCS doesn't denote newsstand/direct versions because of the following reasons...
1) It's obvious if you're looking at the book. Sellers can sell it as a Newsstand copy, and buyers understand what that means.
2) It's taking the number of books in our database and multiplying it times two. That's twice as many books for the graders to keep up with.
3) It exponentially increases the chance that we will make a mistake on the label. Label errors cause wasted time and money. Label errors cause customers to send books back for reholders, causing more wasted time and money, and introducing unneeded frustration onto the customer.

When CBCS opened we put together a case study on this because, quite honestly, the graders thought it would be awesome. Once we got into the pros and cons, it was determined that it would prevent us from being able to be productive at the level we needed to be. Once the graders understood the level at which this would complicate their jobs, it was found to be an albatross.

To sum it up, newsstand would be cool for us to add, but it would ultimately result in increased prices and significantly increased turnaround times.


The problem with this explanation is the following:

1. Yes, it's obvious when you're dealing with certain books in hand, especially from June of 1979 to July/Oct 1993. Before and after that, however, it's not so obvious.

2. When you're dealing with a census and a database, that "obviousness" disappears, since you're only looking at data, and not books. This data is PRICELESS IF you are going to have a census and a registry, which you realllly need to have.

3. It's not any different than dealing with a variant. Variants, even if they result in exponentially increasing the chances for error, are necessary to denote, for obvious reasons. DM and NS notations can be just as easy to implement. You have to input the title, the date, the issue number (I assume these are culled from your database), adding another box to check needn't add to your burden in any substantial way, and it should be second nature to the professional handling these things.

4. You need to have someone on your team who is an asshole. Who makes people mad, because all he/she does is make sure that everything is completely accurate at all times. Nitpicky as all get out, and not worried about what other people think of him/her, because Quality Control is all they care about.

As TommyJasmin said, it's part of the job. It's not difficult, despite what the case study says. And yes, it requires more diligence, but this is an area that is RIPE for beating CGC. The expenditure in time and resources to set the program up is MORE than offset by the increased revenue of people looking so slab one or the other or both.

I would even be willing to have you fly me out to Florida and help set it up as a consultant.

I'm afraid the company has settled for "we can't", rather than searching for ways to ask "why not?"

By the way...there are experts out there who can tell you precisely what a particular comic is, from whatever era they specialize in, just by looking at it. I assume you naturally consulted those people if there was any discovered deficiency in your in-house knowledge...?
Post 37 IP   flag post
Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthLego
Technically, no. They are not considered variants by the publishers. It is collectors who decided to seek them out as variants.


True, but it isn't the publishers who decided on the term "variants" in the first place.

They were initially called "premiums" or "promotional issues" or "gold, silver, platinum editions" or "alternates", or "limited edition" or "limited series" (this was DF's preferred verbiage) or "limited premium edition" or "super limited premium edition"...

The collecting community didn't settle on the word "variants" to encompass all of these until...maybe...10 years ago? I look at my 2003 OPG, and all of these words, and more, are found there.

Hell, the OPG couldn't even decide what THE SAME VERSION were called. The Star Wars #1-4 35s are called "limited distribution" and "35c with UPC code; not reprints", while X-Men #105-107 are called "35c variants, limited distribution."

So just because they're not considered variants by the publishers...and yes, I've red Shooter's explanation in early 80's OPGs...doesn't mean they're not.

They clearly are, in the real sense of the word "variation."
Post 38 IP   flag post
Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthLego
Well I can't get CBCS to decide to properly label a Batman #1 WB Studio Tour variant because someone at DC Comics is a bonehead and messed up the indicia. So I guess the decisions of the publishers do carry weight despite what the collector community thinks.


If we go by the indicia...and I understand the reasoning for why this is correct policy the vast majority of the time...then there are no such things as 30 and 35 cent Marvel variants...

...just sayin'...
Post 39 IP   flag post
Collector Logan510 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocBrown
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveRicketts
The single most time consuming thing for the grading room to do is researching comics to make sure they have the right book and entering the key comments into the fields. It's a very tedious job.

CBCS doesn't denote newsstand/direct versions because of the following reasons...
1) It's obvious if you're looking at the book. Sellers can sell it as a Newsstand copy, and buyers understand what that means.
2) It's taking the number of books in our database and multiplying it times two. That's twice as many books for the graders to keep up with.
3) It exponentially increases the chance that we will make a mistake on the label. Label errors cause wasted time and money. Label errors cause customers to send books back for reholders, causing more wasted time and money, and introducing unneeded frustration onto the customer.

When CBCS opened we put together a case study on this because, quite honestly, the graders thought it would be awesome. Once we got into the pros and cons, it was determined that it would prevent us from being able to be productive at the level we needed to be. Once the graders understood the level at which this would complicate their jobs, it was found to be an albatross.

To sum it up, newsstand would be cool for us to add, but it would ultimately result in increased prices and significantly increased turnaround times.


The problem with this explanation is the following:

1. Yes, it's obvious when you're dealing with certain books in hand, especially from June of 1979 to July/Oct 1993. Before and after that, however, it's not so obvious.

2. When you're dealing with a census and a database, that "obviousness" disappears, since you're only looking at data, and not books. This data is PRICELESS IF you are going to have a census and a registry, which you realllly need to have.

3. It's not any different than dealing with a variant. Variants, even if they result in exponentially increasing the chances for error, are necessary to denote, for obvious reasons. DM and NS notations can be just as easy to implement. You have to input the title, the date, the issue number (I assume these are culled from your database), adding another box to check needn't add to your burden in any substantial way, and it should be second nature to the professional handling these things.

4. You need to have someone on your team who is an asshole. Who makes people mad, because all he/she does is make sure that everything is completely accurate at all times. Nitpicky as all get out, and not worried about what other people think of him/her, because Quality Control is all they care about.

As TommyJasmin said, it's part of the job. It's not difficult, despite what the case study says. And yes, it requires more diligence, but this is an area that is RIPE for beating CGC. The expenditure in time and resources to set the program up is MORE than offset by the increased revenue of people looking so slab one or the other or both.

I would even be willing to have you fly me out to Florida and help set it up as a consultant.

I'm afraid the company has settled for "we can't", rather than searching for ways to ask "why not?"

By the way...there are experts out there who can tell you precisely what a particular comic is, from whatever era they specialize in, just by looking at it. I assume you naturally consulted those people if there was any discovered deficiency in your in-house knowledge...?




I could see that happening.
Post 40 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user
What if the majority of your paying customers requested the variation between newstand editions?
Post 41 IP   flag post
Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaptainmyke
What if the majority of your paying customers requested the variation between newstand editions?


Whoever gives in first and offers it will get that increased business.
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