Seduction of the Innocent2185
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Towmater private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Jerkfro If those people had been a part of a large movement then maybe they might have influenced society as a whole. That larger movement doesn't start until a decade plus later. They did not effect the Leave it to Beaver types who dominated society in the 1950's. |
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BrianGreensnips private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @ZosoRocks I am sorry that I struck a nerve. It was not my intent. | ||
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MR_SigS private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by ZosoRocks No offense (I mean that), but your wording suggests you speak for me, the first member to join here, the next member to post, and the next to join, as well as everyone in the hobby. Was that your intent?  |
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MR_SigS private msg quote post Address this user | |
And trust me, I don't plan to try to change your mind. You've clearly thought this over  I'm just wondering if you believe everyone is supposed to feel the same way. |
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Comicdey private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I feel differently and am good with that. | ||
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 I live in RI and Rhode Islanders eat chili with beans.
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esaravo private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Something else to consider. Comics listed in both SOTI and POP (Parade of Pleasure) are identified in the Overstreet Price Guide, and those issues are more valuable because of their inclusion in those publications. | ||
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Comicdey private msg quote post Address this user | |
| And more desirable to many | ||
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MR_SigS private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I just feel ignoring how this book fits into history is very "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it ". -George Santayana | ||
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dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Agreed. While it did so for all the wrong reasons, I don't see how it can be argued that this book isn't a part of comic book history. The influence this book had reshaped the comic book landscape for decades. Like so many misguided, or outright wong, things in history, it should not be forgotten, or ignored. The fact that it was so devastating is precisely the reason why it should be brought up. I'm not saying it's history should be glorified nor it's message preached but it serves as a lesson that we would be careful not to forget. |
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Jerkfro private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Towmater The larger movement has its seeds in this earlier movement. Thus, they did influence. It just took longer to happen. |
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JLS_Comics private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Ive read it online, very interesting indeed. I'd love to find a hard copy at some point. I do agree it is a part of comics history | ||
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ZosoRocks private msg quote post Address this user | |
| No nerve...I'm just tired of how some people think they can persuade others with false info. People need to be more honest, if this world is going to get better. Psychology is a perception based in natural law. We read comics for entertainment, I wonder what "evil" entertainment the good doctor has?! That is my point. No one needs to worry about what comics can do....because if someone is so worried about my happiness, then that person needs to get a life of their own. Books like that are not helping society. Books like that remind me of Mein Kampf. :o) Burn it....or resell it for $100.00 and buy more comics!! :o) Oh yeah...just my opinion. |
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Logan510 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| +1 a bad part of it's history. But...some of the best stuff Marvel produced was done during the strictest era of the CCA. John Byrne has said that part of the challenge back when he first started in 1974 was to come as close to the line as possible without going over. |
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ZosoRocks private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by MR_SigS Nothing bad...only and freely speaking my mind and opinion. You may mark me down for the column that does not think that book is important to comic history. You may think otherwise...great...have at it....I don't and I will always take the side against anyone or item that will denounce any literature or degrades a form of entertainment. They have no right tI impose a false philosophy upon any unsuspecting person....and surely I won't the industry utilize this man to say he helped out industry. We all have a this right and when someone impacts society with their view and think it is right for everyone....that is when I get involved. Trust me...my rant is only for me...but whomever in this world who wants to research this book, then I encourage them...You have that right. This same philosophy goes for comics too....I may like Valiant...you may not. You also have the right to speak out against it, do you not? Maybe there is an independent character you think is "silly" and would never buy a copy, it is all about perception, is it not? Shoot..,some of the comments on these forums....towards other companies have been far worst than my dislike for a 1950a book. Trust me...no offense taken....just speaking my mind, as others were liking the book...I objected to its content and morals. Cheers back at you! Best regards....seriously....*smiles and nods* |
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DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Books like that do help society. They help society avoid repeating past ignorance by understanding what people of the time thought and experienced. If you were to burn all these books from the historical record then you are guaranteed that 100 years from now the same ignorance would be repeated in the culture because you removed the lesson that society was supposed to learn so as to grow and improve. | ||
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ZosoRocks private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @DarthLego Okay. I'll give the book that...it shows how ignorance can propel things forward. As for repeating "cycles"...I think we are a society who learns from the mistakes we had made, and not to do them again and again....and thankfully, we now don't rely on the perception of just one man to dictate our lives. Thanks for the insight...good point. |
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ZosoRocks private msg quote post Address this user | |
| IMO...it is about ideology....and how far someone can push theirs. I'm just one voice in this industry...and trust me...I don't have much in order to "change" a worldview, |
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QuaBrot private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by ZosoRocks Just look to the senate hearings on Music lyrics in 1985, its almost exactly the same issue - just substitute Comics for Songs. We did learn a bit from history because even though people were able to put forward that somehow Songs were destroying the Youth the artists were able to fight back with a simple First Amendment argument that won. I don't think society would have been as receptive to that argument back int eh 1950's. |
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QuaBrot private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @DocBrown Sorry was away from computer/internet for a bit. Yes, I agree with most of what you say. DC shut down a lot before SOTI, as did Atlas (Captain America and all the related books also went Horror and then kaput in the early 1950's). You also point out that really Dell was the big winner. There were so many Dell funny books published that even collectors don't pay much for them (I give my 8 year old daughter Looney Tunes and WDC&S to read, she has a stack of early 1950's comics she is reading and destroying) But Dell petered out in the late 1960's, so even though Donald Duck et al had long running titles, they switched around a bit after the mid 1960's, which the other 3 (Superman etc) didn't. I would also disagree that older kids/teens weren't reading the books as much. EC definitely had an older than average reading audience. And the Fiction House titles (Jungle, Fight, Wings, Planet Comics) were aimed at an older crowd with their Good Girl Art (boy, were those good girls!). The field in the late 40's, as they industry moved away from Superhero books, diversified in ways that didn't occur again until the late 70's/80's and that included books for women (Romance) and older kids. I have heard the main reason superheros fell out of favor, and one that makes the most sense to me, is that once the war was over the psychological need they served during the war (patriotic and vicariously beating the enemy) was also over, and the public just didn't have the same desire for them anymore. Some did survive, and they were pretty watered down (especially Batman and Wonder Woman - Batman had already become the cheesy goody goody instead of the original darker character and Wonder Woman lost her Feminist power , becoming more feminine and submissive). This is why Flash and Green Lantern had to be reinvented almost 10 years later, for a different society with different angst and needs for heroes. Also, Captain Marvel (SHAZAM) was still going strong through 1953, outselling Superman at the time. He and his family were much closer to the funny animal books of Dell in some ways, appealing to younger kids and being goofy and innocent, but in an honest way. Fawcett was put out of business by DC for copyright infringement in 1953 and I wonder how long he would have lasted, and what affect that would have had on comics history in general. |
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conditionfreak private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Never read SOTI and have no desire to. But I would like to own a copy, as I collect books. I don't just collect books I like or agree with. I collect books. Decapitation covers, devil covers, Hitler covers, Silly rabbit covers, talking duck covers, Good Girl Art, zombie covers, epic battle stories, deaths and rebirth covers, historical books, etc. I also collect hardback first edition books. Everything from Uncle Tom's Cabin to Stephen King and Tom Clancy novels. But most of all, I collect books that are tough to locate. |
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MR_SigS private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by ZosoRocks But if the generations who were not around when the lesson was learned never hears of it because books are destroyed and their history hidden, they are doomed to repeat it. |
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MR_SigS private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Future generations need to be taught ABOUT our mistakes before they can learn from our mistakes. | ||
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Johnnylray private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @conditionfreak I feel your pain. Same here..Went to a yard sale and bought a Stephen King "It" book.25 cents....Inside was signed "To Michael , Merry Christmas- Stephen King"..;-) | ||
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Oxbladder private msg quote post Address this user | |
| It is important to remember history ... Even though we often make the same mistakes again and again. Media, any form, have been attacked in the same way for decades. Thankfully, comics survived and by keeping the SOTI in mind those mistakes have never been repeated. All those who are for freedom/rights/etc always need to keep such mistakes as SOTI and POP in hand to bring rational discussion back to the forefront. | ||
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Towmater private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by conditionfreak I've got a signed Naval Institute Press second printing of The Hunt for Red October. |
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conditionfreak private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Towmater Cool. I have all of Clancy's books, and ten are signed by him. I also have all of S. King's books, and two first edition "Firestarter" by S. King. Heck, I even have all of his "Dark Tower" comic book series. I have too many books. |
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JLS_Comics private msg quote post Address this user | |
| "History repeats itself because no one was listening the first time." Anonymous Apparently this phrase is popular "Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it." George Santayana "Those that fail to learn from history, are doomed to repeat it." Winston Churchill But then Oscar Wilde said; "History does not repeat itself. The historians repeat each other." Ironically, George and Winston and Anon repeated each other |
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ZosoRocks private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by conditionfreak So do I...and love to find them signed. I also have a few first editions, and 2nd editions that I've come across for collecting. Will I do the same for this one? Sure? If I ever come across it. It doesn't mean I'll keep it. I'd probably resell it. |
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